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Text 1983, 166 rader
Skriven 2005-01-15 21:00:26 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1976 av Ellen K. (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

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   You can't protect them from their own stupidity.  I've seen plenty of =
examples of people getting infected with spyware due to their own = explicit
actions, either approving when asked if something should be = installed or
explicitly downloading and installing something that is or = includes spyware. 
I do not know of anyone personally that was infected = due to an exploit of a
bug.  Phishing is another example that relies = almost entirely on people being
to trusting and doing something they = shouldn't.  I haven't seen an email
virus in a long time that did not = rely on the user following instructions in
the email to act against his = own interest and run or even save then open and
run something they = shouldn't.  We are well beyond what many folks would
consider security.  = To protect against people making these kinds of mistakes
you have to = take choices they can't be trusted making away from them.  That
upsets = the folks that can be trusted to or want to make these choices
unhappy.  = This isn't far from the idea that putting you in a straightjacket
makes = you more secure because you are less likely to hurt yourself.  As for =
how people react to this, do you remember the reaction to cars that = buzzed or
otherwise made noise when the driver or a passenger did not = wear his seat
belt?  It wasn't positive.

Rich
  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message =
news:48qju0547j4l00akdf69j0bip7fgj8bmp5@4ax.com...
  And that is a very big problem when trying to figure out what security
  features should be built in or what functionality should be allowed.  =
Do
  we protect users from their own stupidity?   I guess there is a
  rationale for doing so in that if the masses' machines are laxly =
secured
  (if at all), the danger to _everyone_ increases.

  On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:07:12 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
  <41e30a96@w3.nls.net>:

  >   I agree there are a great many people that have no interest in or =
familiarity with exercising the control available to them.  That will = always
be true. =20
  >
  >Rich
  >
  >  "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in =
message news:7og4u0pj8f0nq10sm8t2covkac7q75oj1s@4ax.com...
  >  Well, I think this conversation is all over the place regarding who =
we
  >  are talking about when we talk about users.  The folks here are an
  >  entirely different animal from the famous great unwashed masses.
  >
  >  On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:40:28 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
  >  <41e0fbe8@w3.nls.net>:
  >
  >  >   Because you are in control, my point to george.
  >  >
  >  >Rich

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You can't protect them =
from their own=20
stupidity.&nbsp; I've seen plenty of examples of people getting infected =
with=20
spyware due to their own explicit actions, either approving when asked = if=20
something should be installed or explicitly downloading and installing =
something=20
that is or includes spyware.&nbsp; I do not know of anyone personally = that
was=20
infected due to an exploit of a bug.&nbsp; Phishing is another example =
that=20
relies almost entirely on people being to trusting and doing something =
they=20
shouldn't.&nbsp; I haven't seen an email virus in&nbsp;a long time that = did
not=20
rely on the user following instructions in the email to act against his =
own=20
interest and run or even save then open and run something they =
shouldn't.&nbsp;=20
We are well beyond what many folks would consider security.&nbsp; To =
protect=20
against people making these kinds of mistakes you have to take choices =
they=20
can't be trusted making away from them.&nbsp; That upsets the folks that = can
be=20
trusted to or want to make these choices unhappy.&nbsp; This isn't far = from
the=20
idea that putting you in a straightjacket makes you more secure because = you
are=20
less likely to hurt yourself.&nbsp; As for how people react to this, do =
you=20
remember the reaction to cars that buzzed or otherwise made noise when = the=20
driver or a passenger did not wear his seat belt?&nbsp; It wasn't=20
positive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Ellen K." &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:48qju0547j4l00akdf69j0bip7fgj8bmp5@4ax.com">news:48qju0547j4=
l00akdf69j0bip7fgj8bmp5@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>And=20
  that is a very big problem when trying to figure out what =
security<BR>features=20
  should be built in or what functionality should be allowed.&nbsp; =
Do<BR>we=20
  protect users from their own stupidity?&nbsp;&nbsp; I guess there is=20
  a<BR>rationale for doing so in that if the masses' machines are laxly=20
  secured<BR>(if at all), the danger to _everyone_ increases.<BR><BR>On =
Mon, 10=20
  Jan 2005 15:07:12 -0800, "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message<BR>&lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:41e30a96@w3.nls.net">41e30a96@w3.nls.net</A>&gt;:<BR><BR>&=
gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  I agree there are a great many people that have no interest in or =
familiarity=20
  with exercising the control available to them.&nbsp; That will always =
be=20
  true.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rich<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "Ellen K." =
&lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:7og4u0pj8f0nq10sm8t2covkac7q75oj1s@4ax.com">news:7og4u0pj8f0=
nq10sm8t2covkac7q75oj1s@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
  Well, I think this conversation is all over the place regarding who=20
  we<BR>&gt;&nbsp; are talking about when we talk about users.&nbsp; The =
folks=20
  here are an<BR>&gt;&nbsp; entirely different animal from the famous =
great=20
  unwashed masses.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:40:28 =
-0800,=20
  "Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:41e0fbe8@w3.nls.net">41e0fbe8@w3.nls.net</A>&gt;:<BR>&gt;<=
BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Because you are in control, my point to =
george.<BR>&gt;&nbsp;=20
  &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Rich<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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