Text 2113, 489 rader
Skriven 2005-01-22 00:49:52 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 2112 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Do we protect users from their own stupidity?
=========================================================
From: "Rich" <@>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the headers just like I said long ago. Why are you complaining =
about something you obviously never used?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net...
and that snippet of code I posted that marks the different sections of =
an email, where is that included?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f19326@w3.nls.net...
The headers are included with all the other headers. The PDF =
attachment is included among the attachments.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f19043@w3.nls.net...
Yes Outlook does hide information that you can see in the raw =
email. Suppose you send a text message with a pdf attachment and you = receive
it in outlook
Ok show me how to see this part
------=3D_013325721613207
Content-Type: application/octet-stream;
name=3D"RS129067.PDF"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"
That's the chunk of the raw message I want to see. You open the =
message and it's text with an attachment, right clicking on the body = gives no
"view source" choice. Where can I view the raw base64 text that = was sent as
part of an email? Outlook converted it to an attachment but = there is no way
to see the raw information as it was when it passed thru = the spam filters.
From outlook can you even tell if it was BASE64 or some other =
encoding method that was used?
you can't see this boundry info for the text part either.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f13425@w3.nls.net...
You keep claiming the information is hiden. It's not. It's =
just not in your face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are = rare.
Virtually all the time you have no desire for the routing = encoding garbage
that means nothing to virtually everyone.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net...
Say you have a customer who is having some problem getting =
emails from an email list or they keep getting the same email over and = over
again or they got an email hours after it was sent and want to know = why or
any of a dozen other reasons where you need to see information = that most
email programs now hide.
interesting idea of saving the message, changing the extension =
then attaching it to a new email, I may try that one although that still = may
be a bit much to explain to some people.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net...
What kind of email issue? The encoded body parts only =
matter to me when I suspect there is a problem with the encoding in the =
sending app.
OE forward is fine. Use Forward As Attachment. Outlook =
will do this but you have to select two or more messages, forward, then =
delete the extra. There may be a simpler way but I know this one works. =
Still you still won't get what you want from any email program because =
the RFCs have specific rules regarding an embedded RFC822 encoded = message
that may mandate re-encoding parts of it. If I'm really = concerned I have
people save the message, rename it with some = non-message extension, then
attach the renamed file.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net...
Yes, pretty much any time you have an email issue you need =
to solve, you have to be able to look at the raw message in it's = entirety or
be able to cut/paste it into another email so you can = forward it to someone
so they can see it in it's original form.
The way outlook and outlook express "forward" feature =
works it is virtually useless to forward an email to tech support = because all
the important parts are either removed or modified. ISP = techs and postmasters
walk people thru this copying the raw email to a = new email procedure all the
time.
As an end user you probably wouldn't need it except if you =
were a geek but for support purposes it's quite common.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net...
Outlook is not limited to RFC822 format nor is this =
the native format. What you describe is RFC822 specific and assumes = that the
RFC822 format is the storage format.
Do you really view the headers and the encoded body =
parts as something you view for the same reasons?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net...
I like the outlook express view source feature better =
than that. It allows me to see the headers and the source of the message = all
in one window and I can get to that window without ever opening the = email.
Really wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running Outlook 2000 = but it
doesn't sound like the current version is much improved wrt this = feature)
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net...
The headers, all headers for both the message and =
all the MIME parts.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net...
does that show you just the headers or is it like =
OE view source where it shows the whole raw email all in one screen?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net...
Full headers, yes. In the options dialog.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41eda613@w3.nls.net...
In the current version of Outlook, is there a =
way to view the source for an email without opening the email first like = you
can do in Outlook express?=20
Geo.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> In the headers just like I =
said long=20
ago. Why are you complaining about something you obviously never=20
used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net">news:41f1d532@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and that snippet of code I posted =
that marks the=20
different sections of an email, where is that included?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f19326@w3.nls.net">news:41f19326@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The headers are =
included with all=20
the other headers. The PDF attachment is included among the=20
attachments.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f19043@w3.nls.net">news:41f19043@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes Outlook does hide =
information that=20
you can see in the raw email. Suppose you send a text message with =
a pdf=20
attachment and you receive it in outlook</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok show me how to see this =
part</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>------=3D_013325721613207<BR>Content-Type:=20
=
application/octet-stream;<BR>name=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR>Content-Transfer-En=
coding:=20
BASE64<BR>Content-Disposition:=20
attachment;<BR>filename=3D"RS129067.PDF"<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That's the chunk of the raw =
message I want to=20
see. You open the message and it's text with an attachment, right =
clicking=20
on the body gives no "view source" choice. Where can I view the =
raw base64=20
text that was sent as part of an email? Outlook converted it to an =
attachment but there is no way to see the raw information as it =
was when=20
it passed thru the spam filters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From outlook can you even tell if =
it was=20
BASE64 or some other encoding method that was used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you can't see this boundry info =
for the text=20
part either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f13425@w3.nls.net">news:41f13425@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You keep claiming =
the=20
information is hiden. It's not. It's just not in =
your=20
face. It shouldn't be. The examples you give are =
rare. =20
Virtually all the time you have no desire for the routing =
encoding=20
garbage that means nothing to virtually everyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f0e6b7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Say you have a customer who =
is having=20
some problem getting emails from an email list or they keep =
getting=20
the same email over and over again or they got an email hours =
after it=20
was sent and want to know why or any of a dozen other reasons =
where=20
you need to see information that most email programs now=20
hide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>interesting idea of saving =
the message,=20
changing the extension then attaching it to a new email, I may =
try=20
that one although that still may be a bit much to explain to =
some=20
people.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net">news:41f087ab@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> What kind of =
email=20
issue? The encoded body parts only matter to me when I =
suspect=20
there is a problem with the encoding in the sending=20
app.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> OE forward is =
fine. =20
Use Forward As Attachment. Outlook will do this but =
you have=20
to select two or more messages, forward, then delete the=20
extra. There may be a simpler way but I know this one=20
works. Still you still won't get what you want from =
any email=20
program because the RFCs have specific rules regarding an =
embedded=20
RFC822 encoded message that may mandate re-encoding parts of =
it. If I'm really concerned I have people save the =
message,=20
rename it with some non-message extension, then attach the =
renamed=20
file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net">news:41f04260$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, pretty much any time =
you have an=20
email issue you need to solve, you have to be able to look =
at the=20
raw message in it's entirety or be able to cut/paste it =
into=20
another email so you can forward it to someone so they can =
see it=20
in it's original form.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The way outlook and =
outlook express=20
"forward" feature works it is virtually useless to forward =
an=20
email to tech support because all the important parts are =
either=20
removed or modified. ISP techs and postmasters walk people =
thru=20
this copying the raw email to a new email procedure all =
the=20
time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As an end user you =
probably wouldn't=20
need it except if you were a geek but for support purposes =
it's=20
quite common.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef296e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Outlook is =
not limited=20
to RFC822 format nor is this the native format. =
What you=20
describe is RFC822 specific and assumes that the RFC822 =
format=20
is the storage format.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Do you =
really view the=20
headers and the encoded body parts as something you view =
for the=20
same reasons?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef23a8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I like the outlook =
express view=20
source feature better than that. It allows me to see =
the=20
headers and the source of the message all in one =
window and I=20
can get to that window without ever opening the email. =
Really=20
wish I could do that in Outlook. (I'm running Outlook =
2000 but=20
it doesn't sound like the current version is much =
improved wrt=20
this feature)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net">news:41ef13a2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The =
headers, all=20
headers for both the message and all the MIME=20
parts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net">news:41eef749$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does that show =
you just the=20
headers or is it like OE view source where it =
shows the=20
whole raw email all in one screen?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net">news:41edbbb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Full headers,=20
yes. In the options dialog.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41eda613@w3.nls.net">news:41eda613@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In the =
current version of=20
Outlook, is there a way to view the source for =
an=20
email without opening the email first like you =
can do=20
in Outlook express? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
=
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
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