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Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter

Text 2989, 169 rader
Skriven 2005-03-08 18:44:48 av John Oellrich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 2895 av Mike '/m' (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: IDE market consolidates some more...?
=================================================
From: "John Oellrich" <john@oellrich.us>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mike,

They should try resizing windows. One of my beefs with Java apps in this =
function.

--=20
john

john@oellrich.us
  "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:90cm21dm6ciof10qn3803fpv5bg4su6oab@4ax.com...
  On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:19:45 +0200, "Antti Kurenniemi"
  <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote:

  >"Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  >news:3cul21hrfqlipsjkbml4gr4unu06e82tsc@4ax.com...
  >>>> What is the "extent" and how far does Java miss it by?
  >>>
  >>>The "extent" is when the user notices that this particular app =
feels=20
  >>>enough
  >>>slower than a similar app, and Java misses it by just as much as to =
be
  >>>noticed. Emphasis on "feeling" slower, not so much being actually =
slower.
  >>>
  >>>Go on, take a GUI app written in Java and resize the window. See =
all those
  >>>controls being resized? Now take a similar native compiled app and =
resize
  >>>it. Faster? For me, it is "better" to be faster, but not=20
  >>>earth-shatteringly
  >>>important. It's like, Karhu is a better beer than Koff in my =
opinion (both
  >>>local labels), but I can drink either one if I have to. But if I =
had the
  >>>choice, I would drink the better one.
  >>
  >>
  >>>> For me, it is "better" to be faster, but not earth-shatteringly
  >>>important.
  >>
  >> As you start to back-pedal from your position.  :-)
  >
  >I don't think I'm back-pedaling, I'm just trying not no make a bigger =
deal=20
  >of this than it is. I still dislike Java / .NET in comparison to =
native=20
  >compiled apps, and the feeling of speed is one significant reason for =
me.
  >

  The people who use the Java programs my department write do not spend =
their
  entire day resizing windows.  They spend their day making far more =
productive
  use of their time.

  The amount of time that they spend doing things where Java *might* be
  significantly slower than a native app is such a small portion of what =
they
  do, that it drops out of the equation as background noise.

  It is certainly not enough of a difference to decide not to use Java.  =

   /m
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Mike,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>They should try resizing windows. One of my beefs with Java apps in =
this=20
function.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>-- <BR>john</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:john@oellrich.us">john@oellrich.us</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Mike '/m'" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:90cm21dm6ciof10qn3803fpv5bg4su6oab@4ax.com">news:90cm21dm6ci=
of10qn3803fpv5bg4su6oab@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>On=20
  Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:19:45 +0200, "Antti Kurenniemi"<BR>&lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>&gt;=20
  wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;"Mike '/m'" &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote in =
message=20
  =
<BR>&gt;news:3cul21hrfqlipsjkbml4gr4unu06e82tsc@4ax.com...<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt=
;&gt;=20
  What is the "extent" and how far does Java miss it=20
  by?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;The "extent" is when the user =
notices that=20
  this particular app feels <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;enough<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;slower =
than a=20
  similar app, and Java misses it by just as much as to=20
  be<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;noticed. Emphasis on "feeling" slower, not so much =
being=20
  actually slower.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Go on, take a GUI app =
written=20
  in Java and resize the window. See all those<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;controls =
being=20
  resized? Now take a similar native compiled app and =
resize<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;it.=20
  Faster? For me, it is "better" to be faster, but not=20
  <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;earth-shatteringly<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;important. It's =
like, Karhu=20
  is a better beer than Koff in my opinion (both<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;local =
labels),=20
  but I can drink either one if I have to. But if I had=20
  the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;choice, I would drink the better=20
  one.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For me, it is =
"better" to be=20
  faster, but not=20
  earth-shatteringly<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;important.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
As you=20
  start to back-pedal from your position.&nbsp; :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I =
don't think=20
  I'm back-pedaling, I'm just trying not no make a bigger deal =
<BR>&gt;of this=20
  than it is. I still dislike Java / .NET in comparison to native=20
  <BR>&gt;compiled apps, and the feeling of speed is one significant =
reason for=20
  me.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>The people who use the Java programs my =
department=20
  write do not spend their<BR>entire day resizing windows.&nbsp; They =
spend=20
  their day making far more productive<BR>use of their time.<BR><BR>The =
amount=20
  of time that they spend doing things where Java *might* =
be<BR>significantly=20
  slower than a native app is such a small portion of what they<BR>do, =
that it=20
  drops out of the equation as background noise.<BR><BR>It is certainly =
not=20
  enough of a difference to decide not to use Java.&nbsp;=20
<BR><BR>&nbsp;/m</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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