Text 3510, 267 rader
Skriven 2005-04-09 18:42:26 av Robert Comer (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 3496 av Gary Britt (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Tribulations Of Installing Linux or Johnny O is right.
==================================================================
From: "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com>

> That laptop runs win98 just fine, and I thought Linux was supposed to be
> smaller footprint than windows.

Win98 is *old* and yes, linux does better, but not that much better for the
modern distributions -- they are growing just like Windows did.

Note that linux in text mode would run just fine on that laptop, maybe even do
some server work, but it would hardly be a useful user machine.

>I don't see why it won't get up and run,
> and besides that question is irrelevant to it not installing.

Video driver not available most likely on the install disks.  You could try
setting the video to VESA or standard VGA.

>It has a
> standard NeoMagic 128XD video chipset that was very common on many laptops
> from every major laptop maker, Dell, Gateway, Fujitsu, etc.

I've never encountered that chipset, so I can't help you with that.

>The reason the install fails may
> not be the video alone, but the install routines are so poor on this
> MandrakeLinux that they give you absolutely no info about why they fail.

I'd bet on the video driver, but there is usually the information you're
looking for, but it is hard to find at times.

> All I know is, I'm not going to read a 3 inch book just to try and get it
> to
> install.  If it doesn't install, after 4 hours of trying, then its crap as
> far as any windows user trying to give linux a try would be concerned.

I'll buy it's crap on that hardware, and I'll even say they could be better on
normal hardware, but calling it crap in general isn't fair.

- Bob Comer


"Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
news:425833a0@w3.nls.net...
>
> "Robert Comer" <bobcomer@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:42580218@w3.nls.net...
>> >I sure hope nobody here owns any stock in the company that puts out this
>> >Mandrake crap, because that's exactly >what it is.  Someday I will give
>> >Novell Suse Linux Desktop or Lindows a try on this same machine.
>
>>
>> To expect that laptop to run a modern Linux (a contemporary of Windows
>> XP)
>> is asking a bit much, sure it needs less memory, but not *that* much
>> less.
>> I wouldn't run it less than 256M and would prefer more.  The video is
>> probably some proprietary card that doesn't even have a Linux Driver, and
>> 800x600 is really to small for anything other than text mode anyway.  If
> you
>> *really* want to see what Linux is about you'll have to run it on more
>> modern hardware.
>
> That laptop runs win98 just fine, and I thought Linux was supposed to be
> smaller footprint than windows.  I don't see why it won't get up and run,
> and besides that question is irrelevant to it not installing.  If it
> installed and then ran really slow or was unstable trying to run in that
> kind of memory then I'd have no problem accepting your point.  It has a
> standard NeoMagic 128XD video chipset that was very common on many laptops
> from every major laptop maker, Dell, Gateway, Fujitsu, etc.  The linux
> install recognizes it as a neomagic 128xd.  The reason the install fails
> may
> not be the video alone, but the install routines are so poor on this
> MandrakeLinux that they give you absolutely no info about why they fail.
> All I know is, I'm not going to read a 3 inch book just to try and get it
> to
> install.  If it doesn't install, after 4 hours of trying, then its crap as
> far as any windows user trying to give linux a try would be concerned.
> I'm
> not trying to run Linux down, I don't think there is any doubt about my
> credentials of not being a Microsoft Monopoly fan, I'm just trying to make
> the point that for Linux to succeed it needs a hell of a lot better and
> more
> informative install routine than provided by MandrakeLinux.  I want Linux
> to
> succeed so that's why I'm pointing out this HUGE problem as regards one of
> the major linux distros.
>
> Gary
>
> Gary
>
>>
>> Now that said, I still choose Windows over Linux for any serious work, so
>> don't call me  Linux bigot. <g>
>>
>> - Bob Comer
>>
>>
>> "Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
>> news:425764a7@w3.nls.net...
>> OK, Spent several hours off and on trying to get MandrakeLinux 10.1 to
>> install.  After trying just about every possible video choice finally got
>> the install to complete and tell me congratulations I had successfully
>> installed Mandrake Linux.  Gave off a deep sigh of relief with the
>> thought
>> FINALLY!!  Rebooted with excitement awaiting my first try of Linux.
> Machine
>> goes into the same constant reboot cycle I got when I didn't get the
> install
>> successful message.  Took the 3 MandrakeLinux install disks and threw
>> them
>> away.  Thought, well at least they came in this nifty DVD Type Case that
>> holds 3 CD's one on top of the other in safety.  This turned out to be
> both
>> the best and only good thing about MandrakeLinux.
>>
>> I sure hope nobody here owns any stock in the company that puts out this
>> Mandrake crap, because that's exactly what it is.  Someday I will give
>> Novell Suse Linux Desktop or Lindows a try on this same machine.
>>
>> Gary  (at least os/2 would install with this kind of effort, not Linux or
>> MandrakeLinux)
>>   "Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in message
>> news:4256cd14@w3.nls.net...
>>   About 6 months ago I bought a magazine that came with Mandrake Linux
> 10.1.
>> I did so to install linux just for the hell of it on an old laptop (2 gig
>> HD, Pentium 200 MMX, NeoMagic 2mb Video, capable of 800x600 on LCD and
>> 1024x768 on external monitor.)
>>
>>   I know windows and dos and PC Hardware, but I know nothing about Linux.
>> Unlike when I first began installing windows or before that OS/2, I made
> no
>> effort to study anything about how linux works and how to install it.  So
> I
>> approaced the install as a normal uninformed computer user.
>>
>>   Plunked in the CD, but it either didn't want to install under windows
>> or
> I
>> didn't give it enough time.  Decided to just boot the CD and let it
> install,
>> but this laptop won't boot any CD, even though it is supposed to have
>> that
>> capability.  A problem for me but not Linux's fault.  Made up a dos
>> floppy
>> with cdrom drivers and tried to get linux to install, but when this
>> didn't
>> work realized that Linux needs its own boot floppy to install this way.
>> Directions in a text file for creating this floppy were VERY incomplete.
> If
>> I wasn't familiar with dos commands I would have never figured out how to
>> create the needed linux boot floppy.  The text file said use this command
>> and gives and example of the command, but the example omits the needed
> full
>> paths to the util file in question and the image file it takes as a
> command
>> line option, and these two files are NOT in the same directory.  So if
>> you
>> type in the command as shown in the text file it fails every time because
> it
>> can't find the needed image file that is in and entirely different branch
> of
>> the directory tree.
>>
>>   Then in using the command to create the floppy you have to choose one
>> of
>> five file names to fill in one spot of the command.  The descriptions of
> the
>> choices are so poorly written that you are unable to determine for sure
>> which one is the real choice you are looking for.  After a couple of
>> wrong
>> guesses about which image file to use, I finally lucked into the right
> one.
>>
>>   Finally, reboot with floppy and CD in place and installation begins.
>> Graphics screen in high resolution comes up and I get to the first
>> install
>> screen.  Select language.  The screen is not clear as to what to do next.
>> Select other items, hit advanced or hit next.  Hitting next causes the
>> install to immediately fail and the machine to reboot, so I think maybe I
>> should have done something before hitting next.  Couple more tries with
>> similar failures and I finally notice an error message going by the
>> screen
>> so fast you barely have time to read it, that hints that maybe the
>> problem
>> is video related.   Boot again and select advanced options for install,
> look
>> at my choices that are video related.  Now the install has no problem
>> displaying graphics to the point of that first screen.  It just can't
> figure
>> out how to do it after that first screen.  Seems odd, but I play along.
>> Select lowres graphics install option and reboot.  Get to same graphics
>> screen, now in low res, and same error, crash-reboot..  Ok try a
>> different
>> option, reboot, graphics screen, hit next, same error crash-reboot.  OK
> try
>> text mode install.  Finally, something works and I get passed the first
>> screen in text mode.  Next come a series of screens to choose various
> setup
>> options, sadly some of these screens are so poorly written and documented
>> that they are impossible to decipher as to what to pick.  Like a screen
> with
>> at least 50 files or programs or options, not sure which :-( ,  that is
>> nothing more than a list of unintelligible names that look like a series
> of
>> random letters thrown together with absolutely no meaning in the name, no
>> description of what the thing is, does, or when it should or should not
>> be
>> selected.  With such complete lack of info, unable to decided to select
>> anything on the list or not, so I just hit next and keep going.  Install
>> continues for about 1 hour more now.  Finally, install completes and I
> start
>> getting some screens for configuration of various items, like root name,
>> server name, security level choices, etc. etc., absolutely NO explanation
> is
>> given for any of these items.  Nothing NADA.  You have no clue as to
> whether
>> you should fill something in or leave it blank.  You are given no clue as
> to
>> what the ramifications are if do or don't fill in something or not (like
>> root password or user password, etc etc).  Finally, I get to a screen
>> that
>> shows a summary of what has been configured.  I note the video has not
> been
>> configured.  While given absolutely no clue by the install routine that
>> anything that wasn't configured could be a problem or not, I decide that
> the
>> video not being configured could be a problem.  So I select the video and
>> hit a button to try and configure it.  The install immediately gives me a
>> screen that correctly identifies the video card as a NeoMagic 128XD but
>> it
>> asks me to choose which resolution and color depth.  I remember I used to
>> run it at 1024x768 so I select that option (unfortunately I forgot that
> the
>> internal LCD will only run at 800x600).  Computer proceeds to lock-up,
>> install is trashed and I need to start over.
>>
>>   Bottom line.  In some respects the install routines of Linux are not as
>> good as say OS/2 around 1993.   In other ways, it is as good as OS/2
>> 1993.
>> The almost complete lack of onscreen documentation and help files that
>> can
>> be pulled up for each of the install screens, etc. is a HUGE drawback to
> the
>> quality of the install.  When the install crashes, it never tells you
>> why.
>> If you don't catch something as a log entry goes flashing by at the
>> bottom
>> of the screen by accident, you have no clue what the problem is with the
>> install.
>>
>>   A real newbie would have never gotten past the create boot floppy part
> to
>> even begin the install with help from someone else.
>>
>>   I am going to try the install again over the weekend, but I sure hope
>> linux runs a hell of a lot better than the install routine.
>>
>>   Gary
>>
>>
>
>

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