Text 4847, 339 rader
Skriven 2005-06-11 20:27:04 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 4846 av Randy (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: switching employers
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From: "Rich" <@>
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Only in mike miller's spin.
Rich
"Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net...
Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own choices-however, =
sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there may (or may not) = be an
organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, for example. = I don't see
that in reading this blog entry, however.=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net...
People have been coming and going from everywhere I worked for as =
long as I have been working. Unless you are spinning like mike miller I =
expect you would suggest that everyone is different and makes their own =
choices for their own reasons. Maybe mike miller is projecting his own =
motivations onto others.
Rich
"Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net...
In my corner of the world we routinely 'horse-traded' amongst =
several different business-specific IT organizations-with consolidation =
occuring in the industry those opportunities became fewer and fewer as =
surviving entities relocated the work out of the area. =20
Yes, you did comment on where people went--but not WHY they left.=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net...
Interesting but a side topic. Despite mike miller's attempts =
at spin, I commented on where people go. I fully expect him to continue = to
make insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of = the
people about which he is making claims.
As for where to go, someone is more likely to go 5 miles away =
with only a change of commute than 1000 miles away and being uprooted. =
Google is close. Some of my friends and I joke about it because they = are
within walking distance.
Rich
"Randy" <@> wrote in message news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net...
That could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any =
work environment?
While money may be a big part of it, there are other reasons, =
too-they don't=20
feel their skills are being utilized to their fullest, they =
aren't being=20
challenged, they feel they are not being listened to, they =
don't like the=20
direction the company is being taken, they don't want to play =
the corporate=20
political game, they may have problems with their immediate =
manager; they=20
may have issues totally unrelated to the work....
What I think you are seeing is the fact that now software =
engineering is not=20
the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to the =
perceived -or=20
real- threat of offshoring.
All other things being equal (both tangible and intangible), =
if I have a SE=20
making $120K here in the US, and I get the same performance =
and result out=20
of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?
There are now reports coming out of India where call-center =
personnel are=20
leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK customers =
transacting=20
business with companies that have outsourced to India.
There are a lot of dynamics at play here.
"Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com...
>
> Soounds more like rationalization than explanation.
>
> I agree though that they were looking for change. The =
Microsoft people
> who went to Google were looking for a change, from a =
stagnant company
> whose best years have passed by; to a vibrant, growing =
company that's
> just beginning.
>
> /m
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
>
>> Interest in google is easy to explain. For people =
looking for a change=20
>> but do not want to uproot themselves and move there are few =
high tech=20
>> businesses in the area particularly those that treat there =
employees as=20
>> well as Microsoft does. In the past people have might have =
gone to=20
>> amazon or real or other local outfits. During the boom =
many went to=20
>> startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't as=20
>> popular.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>> "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
>> news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of late,
>> and Google becoming the destination for Microsoft talent. =
Well I guess
>> that happens when you've trained your workforce to expect =
to be paid by
>> the stock market.
>>
>> /m
>=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Only in mike miller's=20
spin.</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Rich</DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Randy" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net">news:42aba72d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Indeed-everyone is different and makes their own=20
choices-however, sometimes patterns do emerge that could suggest there =
may (or=20
may not) be an organizational problem-like an entire group leaving, =
for=20
example. I don't see that in reading this blog entry, however.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net">news:42ab9bef@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> People have been =
coming and going=20
from everywhere I worked for as long as I have been working. =
Unless=20
you are spinning like mike miller I expect you would suggest =
that=20
everyone is different and makes their own choices for their own =
reasons. Maybe mike miller is projecting his own motivations =
onto=20
others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Randy" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net">news:42ab95d8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>In my corner of the world we routinely =
'horse-traded'=20
amongst several different business-specific IT =
organizations-with=20
consolidation occuring in the industry those opportunities became =
fewer=20
and fewer as surviving entities relocated the work out of the =
area. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yes, you did comment on where people went--but =
not WHY they left. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net">news:42ab791f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Interesting =
but a side=20
topic. Despite mike miller's attempts at spin, I commented =
on=20
where people go. I fully expect him to continue to make=20
insinuations regarding why people go without him knowing any of =
the=20
people about which he is making claims.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> As for where to =
go, someone is=20
more likely to go 5 miles away with only a change of commute =
than 1000=20
miles away and being uprooted. Google is close. Some =
of my=20
friends and I joke about it because they are within walking=20
distance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Randy" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net">news:42ab6ffa@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Th=
at=20
could be one of many reasons--why do people leave any work=20
environment?<BR><BR>While money may be a big part of it, there =
are=20
other reasons, too-they don't <BR>feel their skills are being =
utilized=20
to their fullest, they aren't being <BR>challenged, they feel =
they are=20
not being listened to, they don't like the <BR>direction the =
company=20
is being taken, they don't want to play the corporate =
<BR>political=20
game, they may have problems with their immediate manager; =
they=20
<BR>may have issues totally unrelated to the =
work....<BR><BR>What I=20
think you are seeing is the fact that now software engineering =
is not=20
<BR>the glamour job it used to be, thanks in no small part to =
the=20
perceived -or <BR>real- threat of offshoring.<BR><BR>All other =
things=20
being equal (both tangible and intangible), if I have a SE =
<BR>making=20
$120K here in the US, and I get the same performance and =
result out=20
<BR>of an Indian SE for $45K, what do you do?<BR><BR>There are =
now=20
reports coming out of India where call-center personnel are=20
<BR>leaving in high numbers, due to abuse of US and UK =
customers=20
transacting <BR>business with companies that have outsourced =
to=20
India.<BR><BR>There are a lot of dynamics at play=20
here.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Mike '/m'" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:i4lla1lvjl9mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com">news:i4lla1lvjl9=
mcj1pa37j21nqevgnidfr2n@4ax.com</A>...<BR>><BR>>=20
Soounds more like rationalization than =
explanation.<BR>><BR>> I=20
agree though that they were looking for change. The =
Microsoft=20
people<BR>> who went to Google were looking for a change, =
from a=20
stagnant company<BR>> whose best years have passed by; to a =
vibrant, growing company that's<BR>> just=20
beginning.<BR>><BR>> /m<BR>><BR>><BR>> On =
Fri, 10=20
Jun 2005 23:18:21 -0700, "Rich" <@>=20
wrote:<BR>><BR>>> Interest in google is =
easy to=20
explain. For people looking for a change <BR>>> =
but do not=20
want to uproot themselves and move there are few high tech=20
<BR>>> businesses in the area particularly those that =
treat=20
there employees as <BR>>> well as Microsoft does. =
In the=20
past people have might have gone to <BR>>> amazon or =
real or=20
other local outfits. During the boom many went to =
<BR>>>=20
startups but you see less of that now that the idea of =
startups isn't=20
as <BR>>>=20
=
popular.<BR>>><BR>>>Rich<BR>>><BR>>> =20
"Mike '/m'" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<BR>>> <A=20
=
href=3D"news:v1dka151rpc6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com">news:v1dka151rpc=
6lk6pbmo5p2ra8vcjo8mos4@4ax.com</A>...<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>=
; =20
Probably due to the stress caued by Microsoft's problems =
hiring of=20
late,<BR>>> and Google becoming the destination =
for=20
Microsoft talent. Well I guess<BR>>> that =
happens=20
when you've trained your workforce to expect to be paid=20
by<BR>>> the stock=20
market.<BR>>><BR>>> /m<BR>>=20
=
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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