Text 4953, 364 rader
Skriven 2005-06-13 18:28:22 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 4952 av Mike '/m' (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Everyone should take a pay cut
==========================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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Of course you do. You wouldn't admit it anyway?
So Mike, in the years during which manufacturing costs have decreased =
so that a 40 GB disk drive or 4GB or RAM today is less expensive (and = smaller
and faster) than a 40 MB disk drive or 4MB of RAM was in the = past have you
taken a 1000x pay cut to match? If not then maybe you = should limit your
spinning.
Rich
"Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:25csa15ia541n4ri2kk2a0ti6124f4rd1n@4ax.com...
I remain unconvinced that I am the one who is spinning in this
discussion.
How's your rotator cuffs doing there, Rich?
/m
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:01:29 -0700, "Rich" <@> wrote:
> Typical selective editing. Are you behind on your spin quote. =
The portion of the article you elided to jump ahead is
>
> There are noteworthy exceptions to this trend of falling prices. =
One of them is ink, at least the heavily branded sort. A year ago, it = cost
$65 to buy the two cartridges needed for my H-P 960c ink-jet = printer, and
that's precisely what they cost today. Ink prices are such = that
Hewlett-Packard now sells an entry-level printer -- the 3740 -- = that, at
$34.99, costs the same amount as some ink cartridges. Can a = disposable
printer be far behind?
>
> The comparison you are insinuating is apples to oranges. Hardware =
decreases in cost because technology allows producing the same or = similar
products at lower manufacturing cost. Software doesn't have the = same cost
structure and gets little to none of this benefit. The costs = for software
increase. This is why DVD players are far cheaper than a = few years ago but
DVDs are not. Televisions are cheaper but cable, = satelite, and other premium
TV is not. If anything software development = costs have increased with
inflation plus you get more in today's = products then old ones (both computer
software and movies). The movie = folks just raised prices as anyone that goes
to the theater has seen.
>
> Do you pay the software developers, testers, UE folks, and others =
involved in software development less than you did a year ago? How much = of a
pay cut have you offered to take to reduce non-manufacturing costs = for your
employer? There may be lots of factors in pricing but unless = your
manufacturing costs are decreasing like they are for Dell I don't = expect your
employer is lowering its prices to half of what they were = last year because
Dell can do so with its products.
>
>Rich
>
>
> "Mike '/m'" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:739sa1d75ffa17ngusrhvpp9637q3cigtc@4ax.com...
>
> =
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111861285110257383-7l7a53nARtxd=
FA5SfRng_iu4dTc_20060612,00.html?mod=3Dblogs
>
> =3D=3D=3D
> How low can they go? Over the past few weeks, personal computers =
reached
> a significant milestone: The price for an entry-level but fully =
loaded
> system fell below $300.
>
> Dell -- which wasn't even the first PC maker to take the step -- =
last
> week was offering for $299 a Windows computer that had most of what =
a
> beginning user would want. That list includes a 17-inch monitor, a =
2.4
> gigahertz Celeron processor, 256 megabytes of RAM and a 40-gigabyte =
hard
> drive.
>
> A nearly identical system a year ago cost $499, and while it had =
only
> half as much RAM, it did provide speakers. The newer, cheaper model
> doesn't have any, but you can add a pair for $20.
>
> Besides reflecting a remarkable price decline of 40% in 12 months, =
the
> fact that computers can now be had for less than $300 means they =
have
> officially entered into the territory of "consumer electronics," at
> least under one set of industry rules.
>
> Ten or so years ago, when PCs cost five or even 10 times what they =
do
> now, it was common for analysts to say that they would never become =
a
> staple in homes until they were priced the way consumer electronics
> were, usually defined as costing less than $300. In the days when =
PCs
> were $2,000 and even more, that target seemed to be something of a
> fantasy.
>
> Now, PCs cost less than some telephones -- and less than a lot of =
TV
> sets -- and can be found in roughly three-quarters of U.S. homes. =
But
> while they are priced like consumer electronics, the machines still
> aren't even remotely as easy to use, and the trend lines there =
aren't
> particularly encouraging. In fact, with price no longer as =
significant
> an issue, the continuing complexity of computers may become the =
biggest
> contributor to any "digital divide" between digital haves and =
have-nots,
> especially involving access to the Internet.
>
> Declining PC prices have become the poster child for the free-lunch
> economics of the modern technology industry, where manufacturing
> efficiencies, especially in semiconductors, allow companies to
> continually sell more for less. This is most noticeable in =
hardware, but
> it is occurring as well in technology-related services -- at least =
when
> there is something resembling effective competition....
>
> There are noteworthy exceptions to this trend of falling prices....
>
> Microsoft, for one, seems to be in no particular hurry to cut the =
price
> of Windows. Ten years ago, an upgrade version of Windows 95, then =
fresh
> from the labs in Redmond, Wash., was being sold in most stores for
> $89.95. If you shop online for Windows XP Home, the =
third-generation
> successor to Windows 95, you'll find it in the same ballpark.
>
> Ditto with Microsoft Office, which includes Word, Excel and the =
like.
> The high-end version of Office 97, which was introduced eight years =
ago,
> went for $499; the most recent Office had the same price when it =
came
> out in 2003....
> =3D=3D=3D
>
>
> While having a monopoly is legal, its effect upon prices is usually
> beneficial only for the holder of the monopoly.
>
> /m
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Of course you do. =
You wouldn't=20
admit it anyway?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> So Mike, in the years =
during which=20
manufacturing costs have decreased so that a 40 GB disk drive or 4GB or =
RAM=20
today is less expensive (and smaller and faster) than a 40 MB disk drive = or
4MB=20
of RAM was in the past have you taken a 1000x pay cut to match? If =
not=20
then maybe you should limit your spinning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Mike '/m'" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:25csa15ia541n4ri2kk2a0ti6124f4rd1n@4ax.com">news:25csa15ia54=
1n4ri2kk2a0ti6124f4rd1n@4ax.com</A>...</DIV><BR>I=20
remain unconvinced that I am the one who is spinning in=20
this<BR>discussion.<BR><BR>How's your rotator cuffs doing there,=20
Rich?<BR><BR> /m<BR><BR><BR>On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:01:29 -0700, =
"Rich"=20
<@> wrote:<BR><BR>> Typical selective =
editing. Are=20
you behind on your spin quote. The portion of the article you =
elided to=20
jump ahead is<BR>><BR>> There are noteworthy exceptions to =
this=20
trend of falling prices. One of them is ink, at least the heavily =
branded=20
sort. A year ago, it cost $65 to buy the two cartridges needed for my =
H-P 960c=20
ink-jet printer, and that's precisely what they cost today. Ink prices =
are=20
such that Hewlett-Packard now sells an entry-level printer -- the 3740 =
--=20
that, at $34.99, costs the same amount as some ink cartridges. Can a=20
disposable printer be far behind?<BR>><BR>> The =
comparison=20
you are insinuating is apples to oranges. Hardware decreases in =
cost=20
because technology allows producing the same or similar products at =
lower=20
manufacturing cost. Software doesn't have the same cost =
structure and=20
gets little to none of this benefit. The costs for software=20
increase. This is why DVD players are far cheaper than a few =
years ago=20
but DVDs are not. Televisions are cheaper but cable, satelite, =
and other=20
premium TV is not. If anything software development costs have =
increased=20
with inflation plus you get more in today's products then old ones =
(both=20
computer software and movies). The movie folks just raised =
prices as=20
anyone that goes to the theater has seen.<BR>><BR>> =
Do you=20
pay the software developers, testers, UE folks, and others involved in =
software development less than you did a year ago? How much of a =
pay cut=20
have you offered to take to reduce non-manufacturing costs for your=20
employer? There may be lots of factors in pricing but unless =
your=20
manufacturing costs are decreasing like they are for Dell I don't =
expect your=20
employer is lowering its prices to half of what they were last year =
because=20
Dell can do so with its=20
products.<BR>><BR>>Rich<BR>><BR>><BR>> "Mike =
'/m'" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:739sa1d75ffa17ngusrhvpp9637q3cigtc@4ax.com">news:739sa1d75ff=
a17ngusrhvpp9637q3cigtc@4ax.com</A>...<BR>><BR>> =20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111861285110257383-7l7a=
53nARtxdFA5SfRng_iu4dTc_20060612,00.html?mod=3Dblogs">http://online.wsj.c=
om/public/article/0,,SB111861285110257383-7l7a53nARtxdFA5SfRng_iu4dTc_200=
60612,00.html?mod=3Dblogs</A><BR>><BR>> =20
=3D=3D=3D<BR>> How low can they go? Over the past few weeks, =
personal=20
computers reached<BR>> a significant milestone: The price for =
an=20
entry-level but fully loaded<BR>> system fell below=20
$300.<BR>><BR>> Dell -- which wasn't even the first PC =
maker to=20
take the step -- last<BR>> week was offering for $299 a =
Windows=20
computer that had most of what a<BR>> beginning user would =
want. That=20
list includes a 17-inch monitor, a 2.4<BR>> gigahertz Celeron =
processor, 256 megabytes of RAM and a 40-gigabyte hard<BR>> =20
drive.<BR>><BR>> A nearly identical system a year ago cost =
$499,=20
and while it had only<BR>> half as much RAM, it did provide =
speakers.=20
The newer, cheaper model<BR>> doesn't have any, but you can =
add a=20
pair for $20.<BR>><BR>> Besides reflecting a remarkable =
price=20
decline of 40% in 12 months, the<BR>> fact that computers can =
now be=20
had for less than $300 means they have<BR>> officially =
entered into=20
the territory of "consumer electronics," at<BR>> least under =
one set=20
of industry rules.<BR>><BR>> Ten or so years ago, when PCs =
cost=20
five or even 10 times what they do<BR>> now, it was common =
for=20
analysts to say that they would never become a<BR>> staple in =
homes=20
until they were priced the way consumer electronics<BR>> =
were,=20
usually defined as costing less than $300. In the days when =
PCs<BR>> =20
were $2,000 and even more, that target seemed to be something of=20
a<BR>> fantasy.<BR>><BR>> Now, PCs cost less than =
some=20
telephones -- and less than a lot of TV<BR>> sets -- and can =
be found=20
in roughly three-quarters of U.S. homes. But<BR>> while they =
are=20
priced like consumer electronics, the machines still<BR>> =
aren't even=20
remotely as easy to use, and the trend lines there =
aren't<BR>> =20
particularly encouraging. In fact, with price no longer as=20
significant<BR>> an issue, the continuing complexity of =
computers may=20
become the biggest<BR>> contributor to any "digital divide" =
between=20
digital haves and have-nots,<BR>> especially involving access =
to the=20
Internet.<BR>><BR>> Declining PC prices have become the =
poster=20
child for the free-lunch<BR>> economics of the modern =
technology=20
industry, where manufacturing<BR>> efficiencies, especially =
in=20
semiconductors, allow companies to<BR>> continually sell more =
for=20
less. This is most noticeable in hardware, but<BR>> it is =
occurring=20
as well in technology-related services -- at least when<BR>> =
there is=20
something resembling effective competition....<BR>><BR>> =
There are=20
noteworthy exceptions to this trend of falling=20
prices....<BR>><BR>> Microsoft, for one, seems to be in no =
particular hurry to cut the price<BR>> of Windows. Ten years =
ago, an=20
upgrade version of Windows 95, then fresh<BR>> from the labs =
in=20
Redmond, Wash., was being sold in most stores for<BR>> =
$89.95. If you=20
shop online for Windows XP Home, the third-generation<BR>> =
successor=20
to Windows 95, you'll find it in the same =
ballpark.<BR>><BR>> =20
Ditto with Microsoft Office, which includes Word, Excel and the=20
like.<BR>> The high-end version of Office 97, which was =
introduced=20
eight years ago,<BR>> went for $499; the most recent Office =
had the=20
same price when it came<BR>> out in 2003....<BR>> =20
=3D=3D=3D<BR>><BR>><BR>> While having a monopoly is =
legal, its effect=20
upon prices is usually<BR>> beneficial only for the holder of =
the=20
monopoly.<BR>><BR>> =
/m<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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