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Text 5425, 286 rader
Skriven 2005-06-26 14:15:34 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5423 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Rich,

How could people mistake them for pictures if it's so clear the way the = UI
shows the difference between executable attachments and = non-executable
attachments?

Duh, if that doesn't highlight the real problem for you then you are = more
blind than the users.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beec78@w3.nls.net...
     You may not be hypocritical but many complained that it is =
Outlook's fault that it allowed people to open unsafe attachments even = with
the harsh warnings.  As you note, people ignore the warnings.  If = unsafe
attachments were allowed again would you praise Microsoft for = providing the
choice or criticize Microsoft as you have for provding the = choice to users
even if unsafe?  Given your "I don't know" answer below = I don't think you are
in a position criticize.

     As for making the Internet look like your own disk, I think you =
position is nonsense for several reasons.  The first is that the = Internet
does not look like your own disk.  Another is that it doesn't = matter as
Internet vs. local is not an issue.  I think you are confusing = it with
trusted vs. distrusted both of which apply to both local, the = Internet, and
the intranet or home network.

     Also you appear to have not read the lead in to the article that =
spawned this thread.  Let's quote it again

    For thousands of Internet users, the offer seemed all too alluring: =
revealing pictures of Jennifer Lopez, available at a mere click of the = mouse.

    But the pictures never appeared. The offer was a ruse, and the click =
downloaded software code that turned the user's computer into a = launching pad
for Internet warfare.


  As you can't see, the users are taking an explicit action to download =
something they want to download from the Internet.

  Rich


    "John Beckett" <FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit> wrote in =
message news:42be76c6.33472751@216.144.1.254...
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:<42be015f@w3.nls.net>:
    >    I don't see an easy answer.  The issue is not that users are =
warned=20
    > when there is no reason too, it's that they got lucky.  A better =
analogy=20
    > than a combination lock is Russian roulette.  It's always =
dangerous=20
    > which is why there is a warning.  What would you do?
    >=20
    >    On a related note, how do you make a user that just wants =
things to=20
    > "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he makes another =

    > choice to care about such choices?  You can remove the choice =
which is=20
    > the position taken with Outlook and dangerous attachments.  There =
were=20
    > plenty that complained including folks here when that happened.

    You're right, and in relation to 'what would I do?', all I can say =
is that
    I don't know.

    However, what I *do* know is that the original plan to make the =
Internet
    look like your own disk drive, with Help and all manner of other
    hair-brained schemes getting stuff from the Internet, was a *bad* =
idea.

    To be more accurate, incorporating the Internet is a *great*  idea, =
but
    only *if* you first have a way to make it reasonably secure. I =
wouldn't
    mind a few bugs that created vulnerabilities with consequent damage. =
But
    the disasters from the simple exploits ("click here to undress =
Jennifer")
    are rather predictable.

    If I wanted to dominate world computing and own the Internet, and if =
I had
    a spare billion for R&D, I would have proceeded with a little more
    humility and caution than Microsoft.

    In relation to Outlook blocking dangerous attachments: I am one of =
those
    who loudly complained about the astonishing arrogance of a program =
that
    failed to deliver my mail. This is typical of Microsoft's attitude - =
I am
    so stupid that I must be managed. I would actually be happy to =
accept that
    conclusion *if* there weren't thousands of compromised Windows =
computers
    that form a testimonial to the failure of Windows to securely access =
the
    Internet.

    The real reason I whine about this issue so much is that I am =
totally
    infuriated with the complete success of the Microsoft PR team who =
have
    managed some incredible security debacles with astonishing success.

    John

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How could people mistake them for =
pictures if it's=20
so clear the way the UI shows the difference between executable = attachments
and=20
non-executable attachments?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Duh, if that doesn't highlight the real =
problem for=20
you then you are more blind than the users.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42beec78@w3.nls.net">news:42beec78@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You may not be =
hypocritical but many=20
  complained that it is Outlook's fault that it allowed people to open =
unsafe=20
  attachments even with the harsh warnings.&nbsp; As you note, people =
ignore the=20
  warnings.&nbsp; If unsafe attachments were allowed again would you =
praise=20
  Microsoft for providing the choice or criticize Microsoft as you have =
for=20
  provding the choice to users even if unsafe?&nbsp; Given your "I don't =
know"=20
  answer below I don't think you are in a position =
criticize.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for making the =
Internet look like=20
  your own disk, I think you position is nonsense for several =
reasons.&nbsp; The=20
  first is that the Internet does not look like your own disk.&nbsp; =
Another is=20
  that it doesn't matter as Internet vs. local is not an issue.&nbsp; I =
think=20
  you are confusing it with&nbsp;trusted vs. distrusted both of which =
apply to=20
  both local, the Internet, and the intranet or home =
network.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Also you appear to have =
not read the=20
  lead in to the article that spawned this thread.&nbsp; Let's quote it=20
  again</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#008000 size=3D2>For thousands of =
Internet users,=20
    the offer seemed all too alluring: revealing pictures of Jennifer =
Lopez,=20
    available at a mere click of the mouse.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT color=3D#008000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#008000>But the =
pictures never=20
    appeared. The offer was a ruse, and the click downloaded software =
code that=20
    turned the user's computer into a launching pad for Internet=20
    warfare.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As you can't see, the users are =
taking an=20
  explicit action to download something they want to download from the=20
  Internet.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"John Beckett" &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit">FirstnameSurname@com=
puserve.com.omit</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42be76c6.33472751@216.144.1.254">news:42be76c6.33472751@216.=
144.1.254</A>...</DIV>"Rich"=20
    &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:<42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:&lt;42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>&gt;:<=
BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    I don't see an easy answer.&nbsp; The issue is not that users are =
warned=20
    <BR>&gt; when there is no reason too, it's that they got =
lucky.&nbsp; A=20
    better analogy <BR>&gt; than a combination lock is Russian =
roulette.&nbsp;=20
    It's always dangerous <BR>&gt; which is why there is a =
warning.&nbsp; What=20
    would you do?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; On a related note, =
how do=20
    you make a user that just wants things to <BR>&gt; "work" and clicks =
OK=20
    because it doesn't "work" if he makes another <BR>&gt; choice to =
care about=20
    such choices?&nbsp; You can remove the choice which is <BR>&gt; the =
position=20
    taken with Outlook and dangerous attachments.&nbsp; There were =
<BR>&gt;=20
    plenty that complained including folks here when that=20
    happened.<BR><BR>You're right, and in relation to 'what would I =
do?', all I=20
    can say is that<BR>I don't know.<BR><BR>However, what I *do* know is =
that=20
    the original plan to make the Internet<BR>look like your own disk =
drive,=20
    with Help and all manner of other<BR>hair-brained schemes getting =
stuff from=20
    the Internet, was a *bad* idea.<BR><BR>To be more accurate, =
incorporating=20
    the Internet is a *great*&nbsp; idea, but<BR>only *if* you first =
have a way=20
    to make it reasonably secure. I wouldn't<BR>mind a few bugs that =
created=20
    vulnerabilities with consequent damage. But<BR>the disasters from =
the simple=20
    exploits ("click here to undress Jennifer")<BR>are rather=20
    predictable.<BR><BR>If I wanted to dominate world computing and own =
the=20
    Internet, and if I had<BR>a spare billion for R&amp;D, I would have=20
    proceeded with a little more<BR>humility and caution than=20
    Microsoft.<BR><BR>In relation to Outlook blocking dangerous =
attachments: I=20
    am one of those<BR>who loudly complained about the astonishing =
arrogance of=20
    a program that<BR>failed to deliver my mail. This is typical of =
Microsoft's=20
    attitude - I am<BR>so stupid that I must be managed. I would =
actually be=20
    happy to accept that<BR>conclusion *if* there weren't thousands of=20
    compromised Windows computers<BR>that form a testimonial to the =
failure of=20
    Windows to securely access the<BR>Internet.<BR><BR>The real reason I =
whine=20
    about this issue so much is that I am totally<BR>infuriated with the =

    complete success of the Microsoft PR team who have<BR>managed some=20
    incredible security debacles with astonishing=20
  success.<BR><BR>John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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