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Text 5427, 299 rader
Skriven 2005-06-26 11:36:34 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5424 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   Now you give up on making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments.  Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?

   Are you trying to suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP file, =
opens that file, opens something from that file, and then still ignores = the
warning about it being unsafe should blame any unwanted consequences = on whom,
you?  How often do you infect yourself this way?

Rich

  "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
  not if it's in a zip file.
    "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
       To try to fool the few people like you that ignore all the other =
signs.  When OE is configured to allow unsafe file types it displays the = .scr
extension even for the long path.  It also displays the appropriate = icon
which for the example you give is an application icon not a JPEG = icon. 
Outlook and OE still block it or warn about it depending on = settings. =20

    Rich

      "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
      You don't believe the current UI with the way it displays an icon =
has had an effect?

      Why then do email virus use such long attachment names?

      Sheep.jpg                                                          =
                                   .scr

      explain that.

      Geo.
        "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
           The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI.  I believe =
this makes sense and do not believe that this UI consistency makes users = more
likely to make bad choices.

           File extensions being hidden or not, and they are not on file =
attachments, is not the issue.  I realize that this is a topic you like = to
whine about because you believe that your preference is right for = everyone. 
Do you really believe the the clueless that ignore warnings = would pay
attention to this?  This is all moot given that unsafe email = attachments are
blocked and the article was describing people = downloading from the web not
opening an attachment.

           As for your claim to show a difference, this happens in a =
very obvious way.  Users are warned about dangerous files and not warned =
about safe ones.  The problem is that many ignore the warnings.  This is = the
topic discussed in the email to which you replied and one which you =
completely ignored in your reply.

        Rich

          "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
          The answer is very simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments, show the users that these are somehow different from other =
attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a skull and =
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an attachment =
without an exchange server is just plain rude.

          The problem is MS has spent recent history trying to hide file =
extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of clueless users when = it
comes to telling which file types are safe and which are not.

          Geo.
            "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
               I don't see an easy answer.  The issue is not that users =
are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they got lucky.  A = better
analogy than a combination lock is Russian roulette.  It's always = dangerous
which is why there is a warning.  What would you do?

               On a related note, how do you make a user that just wants =
things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't "work" if he makes = another
choice to care about such choices?  You can remove the choice = which is the
position taken with Outlook and dangerous attachments.  = There were plenty
that complained including folks here when that = happened.

            Rich

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2668" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now you give up on making =
false claims=20
about safe and unsafe attachments.&nbsp; Are you incapable of admiting = you
are=20
wrong?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you trying to suggest =
that someone=20
that downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens something from that = file,
and=20
then still ignores the warning about it being unsafe should blame any =
unwanted=20
consequences on whom, you?&nbsp; How often do you infect yourself this=20
way?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a zip =
file.</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; To try to fool the few =
people like=20
    you that ignore all the other signs.&nbsp; When OE is configured to =
allow=20
    unsafe file types it displays the&nbsp;.scr&nbsp;extension even for =
the long=20
    path.&nbsp; It also displays the appropriate icon which for the =
example you=20
    give is an application icon not a JPEG icon.&nbsp; Outlook and OE =
still=20
    block it or warn about it depending on settings.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
      wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't believe the current UI =
with the way=20
      it displays an icon has had an effect?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do email virus use such =
long=20
      attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
      =
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
      .scr</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain that.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The icons reflect =
the icons=20
        elsewhere in the UI.&nbsp; I believe this makes sense and do not =
believe=20
        that this UI consistency makes users more likely to make bad=20
        choices.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; File extensions =
being hidden=20
        or not, and they are not on file attachments, is not the =
issue.&nbsp; I=20
        realize that this is a topic you like to whine about because you =
believe=20
        that your preference is right for everyone.&nbsp; Do you really =
believe=20
        the the clueless that ignore warnings would pay attention to =
this?&nbsp;=20
        This is all moot given that unsafe email attachments are blocked =
and the=20
        article was describing people downloading from the web not =
opening an=20
        attachment.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for your claim =
to show a=20
        difference, this happens in a very obvious way.&nbsp; Users are =
warned=20
        about dangerous files and not warned about safe ones.&nbsp; The =
problem=20
        is that many ignore the warnings.&nbsp; This is the topic =
discussed in=20
        the email to which you replied and one which you completely =
ignored in=20
        your reply.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
          href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
          <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer is very simple, =
instead of=20
          hiding dangerous attachments, show the users that these are =
somehow=20
          different from other attachments, something as simple as =
changing the=20
          icon to a skull and crossbones. To make it so that profession =
users=20
          can't open an attachment without an exchange server is just =
plain=20
          rude.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem is MS has spent =
recent=20
          history trying to hide file&nbsp;extensions from the users, so =
now we=20
          have a bunch of clueless users when it comes to telling which =
file=20
          types are safe and which are not.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't see an =
easy=20
            answer.&nbsp;&nbsp;The issue is&nbsp;not that users are =
warned=20
            when&nbsp;there is no reason too, it's that they got =
lucky.&nbsp; A=20
            better analogy than a combination lock is Russian =
roulette.&nbsp;=20
            It's always dangerous which is why there is a warning.&nbsp; =

            </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What would you =
do?</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; On a related =
note, how do=20
            you make a user that just wants things to "work" and clicks =
OK=20
            because it doesn't "work" if he makes another choice to care =
about=20
            such choices?&nbsp; You can remove the choice which is the =
position=20
            taken with Outlook and dangerous attachments.&nbsp; There =
were=20
            plenty that complained including folks here when that=20
            happened.</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
        =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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