Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   7914/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3218
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13270
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32896
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2056
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33903
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24126
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22092
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 5481, 775 rader
Skriven 2005-06-28 22:19:34 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5462 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: An Army of Soulless 1's and 0's
===========================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C57C2F.76839850
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You seem to be confused because I brought up two email programs OE and =
Outlook that are inconsistent in the way they provide email security, = but
perhaps it would be easier for you if you just try to explain why = outlook
doesn't allow one to run an executable attachment no matter what = you do
(short of getting your own exchange server) yet Outlook Express = which every
new user on the planet uses does allow you to run an = executable attachment
after you tick a silly checkbox that anyone could = find?

It's microsoft's email security strategy that is all over the map.

I mean think about it for a second, if one of the two Outlook or OE = needed to
be locked down it's surely OE not Outlook, and if an exchange = server was
going to be required for something wouldn't it make more = sense that it be
required to prevent a security feature from being = disabled instead of
allowing it to be disabled?

What I'm saying I'd like to see is something about halfway between the = two,
I'd like to see both programs work the same where the default is to = not even
show you an icon for an executable attachment unless the = security feature is
disabled (and by not show I mean not even in the = inbox view), I'd like the
disabling to only be possible via a registry = edit not a checkbox, and I'd
like the registry edit to require a = permission change before it could be
edited so that stupid ISP techs = couldn't easily walk a clueless user thru it
or have them download a = .reg file. And I don't think its proper to require
exchange for any of = this but if you wanted to make exchange able to lock the
security = feature so even a registry edit couldn't disable it that would be a
fine = feature that corp IS departments would probably appreciate.

Are you reading me now?

Geo.


"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c1806f@w3.nls.net...
     You are all over the map as I expected.  You complain that you can =
open attachments even with a bold warning and at the same time complain = that
you can't.  Why do you believe that users susceptible to social = tricks like
tempting pictures or better still those that as instructed = saved a password
protected ZIP file, opened it with a supplied password, = extracted a file, and
ran it are going to be stopped by a checkbox?

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net...
    Of course it's the users being exploited with tricks like tempting =
pictures.

    What I'm saying is that the email programs allowing users to just =
click on an icon in an email to open an attachment, and then allowing = that
attachment to run (even with an annoying dialog box) and then = allowing it to
run with permissions great enough to change the system or = install software,
is where the problem is.

    I thought outlook stopping the attachment from even showing up if it =
was executable was a GREAT solution, the only fault I had with it was = that it
didn't have a hard to find off switch but instead required an = exchange server
to disable it. And the disabled mode should allow only = saving to disk not
execution. (now if they would just do that for OE)

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net...
         So you are saying that infections are due to the users and this =
is why you or I do not become infected running the same software that = others
do when they get trashed.  I could agree with this.  You though = are all over
the map.  Tomorrow you will claim it is because you are = unable to distinguish
between your computer and everything else or = remind us all that you have
never see a warning message and the yellow = icon that is standard.

         As for what I do, I suggest that my friends and family create =
separate Windows XP accounts for their children that are limited user =
accounts not adminstrator accounts and that they avoid any software that =
doesn't work with this.  I also suggest that they do the same for = themselves
and use a separate administrator account only when necessary. =
 My suggestion to you is the same.

         The kids of relevance to me are younger than fifteen.  =
Attachments are not and have never been a problem.  In fact all the = instances
I can remember where attachments were an issue have been with = adults
exercising poor judgement.  The problem with children is that = they download
crap like kazaa or some slimey game they came across.  = Either way, running as
a limited user allows a foolish user to trash his = own account without
trashing the machine.

      Rich

        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net...
        My computer isn't infected because I don't allow a 15 year old =
to use it. So if you had a 15 year old there who shared your computer = with
you, how would you keep it safe? Obviously you can't trust a child = to read
warning boxes and assuming it's a male child the Jennifer Lopez = thing is
going to be pretty tempting once those hormones kick in... Also = a 15 year old
is probably going to know more about the family computer = than his parents so
a setting to "not allow potentially dangerous = attachments" isn't going to be
worth squat.

        Where is the parental lock?

        Geo.
          "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net...
             Disabled no.  Ignore, yes.  If it wasn't under your control =
your computers would all be infected, right?  Are they?  If not, why = not?

          Rich

            "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net...
            Do you believe all the people or at least most of the people =
getting infected in this manner today have disabled the new safety = features
designed to protect them? Somehow I don't think you of all = people would think
that. So if not, then how are they getting infected?

            Geo.
              "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net...
                 Yes it does speak volumes about the real world.  Most =
people do not think like you are care about the thinks you care about =
regardless of whether or not you think they should.  Unfortunately, many = are
easily tricked into taking actions against their own interest.  That = is what
is described in the lead in to the article that triggered this = thread.

              Rich


                "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bef565@w3.nls.net...
                No I'm not giving up, just admitting that the latest =
versions don't suffer from the same UI flaws of previous versions. But = the
fact that so many people are still being fooled by this crap speaks = volumes
about the real world.

                Geo.
                  "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net...
                     Now you give up on making false claims about safe =
and unsafe attachments.  Are you incapable of admiting you are wrong?

                     Are you trying to suggest that someone that =
downloads a ZIP file, opens that file, opens something from that file, = and
then still ignores the warning about it being unsafe should blame = any
unwanted consequences on whom, you?  How often do you infect = yourself this
way?

                  Rich

                    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net...
                    not if it's in a zip file.
                      "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net...
                         To try to fool the few people like you that =
ignore all the other signs.  When OE is configured to allow unsafe file = types
it displays the .scr extension even for the long path.  It also = displays the
appropriate icon which for the example you give is an = application icon not a
JPEG icon.  Outlook and OE still block it or warn = about it depending on
settings. =20

                      Rich

                        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net...
                        You don't believe the current UI with the way it =
displays an icon has had an effect?

                        Why then do email virus use such long attachment =
names?

                        Sheep.jpg                                        =
                                                     .scr

                        explain that.

                        Geo.
                          "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net...
                             The icons reflect the icons elsewhere in =
the UI.  I believe this makes sense and do not believe that this UI =
consistency makes users more likely to make bad choices.

                             File extensions being hidden or not, and =
they are not on file attachments, is not the issue.  I realize that this = is a
topic you like to whine about because you believe that your = preference is
right for everyone.  Do you really believe the the = clueless that ignore
warnings would pay attention to this?  This is all = moot given that unsafe
email attachments are blocked and the article was = describing people
downloading from the web not opening an attachment.

                             As for your claim to show a difference, =
this happens in a very obvious way.  Users are warned about dangerous = files
and not warned about safe ones.  The problem is that many ignore = the
warnings.  This is the topic discussed in the email to which you = replied and
one which you completely ignored in your reply.

                          Rich

                            "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net...
                            The answer is very simple, instead of hiding =
dangerous attachments, show the users that these are somehow different = from
other attachments, something as simple as changing the icon to a = skull and
crossbones. To make it so that profession users can't open an = attachment
without an exchange server is just plain rude.

                            The problem is MS has spent recent history =
trying to hide file extensions from the users, so now we have a bunch of =
clueless users when it comes to telling which file types are safe and = which
are not.

                            Geo.
                              "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42be015f@w3.nls.net...
                                 I don't see an easy answer.  The issue =
is not that users are warned when there is no reason too, it's that they = got
lucky.  A better analogy than a combination lock is Russian = roulette.  It's
always dangerous which is why there is a warning.  What = would you do?

                                 On a related note, how do you make a =
user that just wants things to "work" and clicks OK because it doesn't = "work"
if he makes another choice to care about such choices?  You can = remove the
choice which is the position taken with Outlook and dangerous = attachments. 
There were plenty that complained including folks here = when that happened.

                              Rich

------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C57C2F.76839850
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You seem to be confused because I =
brought up two=20
email programs OE and Outlook that are inconsistent in the way they =
provide=20
email security, but perhaps it would be easier for you if you just try = to=20
explain why outlook doesn't allow one to run an executable attachment no =
matter=20
what you do (short of getting your own exchange server) yet Outlook =
Express=20
which every new user on the planet uses does allow you to run an =
executable=20
attachment after you tick a silly checkbox that anyone could =
find?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's microsoft's email security =
strategy that is=20
all over the map.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I mean think about it for a second, if =
one of the=20
two Outlook or OE needed to be locked down it's surely OE not Outlook, = and if
an=20
exchange server was going to be required for something wouldn't it make =
more=20
sense that it be required to prevent a security feature from being =
disabled=20
instead of allowing it to be disabled?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What I'm saying I'd like to see is =
something about=20
halfway between the two, I'd like to see both programs work the same = where
the=20
default is to not even show you an icon for an executable attachment = unless
the=20
security feature is disabled (and by not show I mean not even in the = inbox=20
view), I'd like the disabling to only be possible via a registry edit = not
a=20
checkbox, and I'd like the registry edit to require a permission change =
before=20
it could be edited so that stupid ISP techs couldn't easily walk a = clueless
user=20
thru it or have them download a .reg file. And I don't think its proper = to=20
require exchange for any of this but if you wanted to make exchange able = to
lock=20
the security feature so even a registry edit couldn't disable it that = would
be a=20
fine feature that corp IS departments would probably = appreciate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you reading me now?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
href=3D"news:42c1806f@w3.nls.net">news:42c1806f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; You are all over the map =
as I=20
  expected.&nbsp; You complain that you can open attachments even with a =
bold=20
  warning and at the same time complain that you can't.&nbsp; Why do you =
believe=20
  that users susceptible to social tricks like tempting pictures or =
better still=20
  those that as instructed saved a password protected ZIP file, opened =
it with a=20
  supplied password, extracted a file, and ran it are going to be =
stopped by a=20
  checkbox?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net">news:42c0f02d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course it's the users being =
exploited with=20
    tricks like tempting pictures.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What I'm saying is that the email =
programs=20
    allowing users to just click on an icon in an email to open an =
attachment,=20
    and then allowing that attachment to run (even with an annoying =
dialog box)=20
    and then allowing it to run with permissions great enough to change =
the=20
    system or install software, is where the problem is.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought outlook stopping the =
attachment from=20
    even showing up if it was executable was a GREAT solution, the only =
fault I=20
    had with it was that it didn't have a hard to find off switch but =
instead=20
    required an exchange server to disable it. And the disabled mode =
should=20
    allow only saving to disk not execution. (now if they would just do =
that for=20
    OE)</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net">news:42c0d228@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; So you are saying =
that=20
      infections are due to the users and this is why you or I do not =
become=20
      infected running the same software that others do when they get=20
      trashed.&nbsp; I could agree with this.&nbsp; You though are all =
over the=20
      map.&nbsp; Tomorrow you will claim it is because you are unable to =

      distinguish between your computer and everything else or remind us =
all=20
      that you have never see a warning message and the yellow icon that =
is=20
      standard.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for what I do, I =
suggest that=20
      my friends and family create separate Windows XP accounts for =
their=20
      children that are limited user accounts not adminstrator accounts =
and that=20
      they avoid any software that doesn't work with this.&nbsp; I also =
suggest=20
      that they do the same for themselves and use a separate =
administrator=20
      account only when necessary.&nbsp; My suggestion to you is the=20
      same.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The kids of =
relevance to me are=20
      younger than fifteen.&nbsp; Attachments are not and have never =
been a=20
      problem.&nbsp; In fact all the instances I can remember where =
attachments=20
      were an issue have been with adults exercising poor =
judgement.&nbsp; The=20
      problem with children is that they download crap like kazaa or =
some slimey=20
      game they came across.&nbsp; Either way, running as a limited user =
allows=20
      a foolish user to trash his own account without trashing the=20
      machine.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
        wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net">news:42c0920f$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My computer isn't infected =
because I don't=20
        allow a 15 year old to use it. So if you had a 15 year old there =
who=20
        shared your computer with you, how would you keep it safe? =
Obviously you=20
        can't trust a child to read warning boxes and assuming it's a =
male child=20
        the Jennifer Lopez thing is going to be pretty tempting once =
those=20
        hormones kick in... Also a 15 year old is probably going to know =
more=20
        about the family computer than his parents so a setting to "not =
allow=20
        potentially dangerous attachments" isn't going to be worth=20
        squat.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Where is the parental =
lock?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net">news:42c015cd@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Disabled =
no.&nbsp; Ignore,=20
          yes.&nbsp; If it wasn't under your control your computers =
would all be=20
          infected, right?&nbsp; Are they?&nbsp; If not, why =
not?</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
            href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
            message <A=20
            =
href=3D"news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bfd08b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you believe all the =
people or at=20
            least most of the people getting infected in this manner =
today have=20
            disabled the new safety features designed to protect them? =
Somehow I=20
            don't think you of all people would think that. So if not, =
then how=20
            are they getting infected?</FONT></DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
              <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
              =
href=3D"news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net">news:42bef8bf@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Yes it does =
speak=20
              volumes about the real world.&nbsp; Most people do not =
think like=20
              you are care about the thinks you care about regardless of =
whether=20
              or not you think they should.&nbsp; Unfortunately, many =
are easily=20
              tricked into taking actions against their own =
interest.&nbsp; That=20
              is what is described in the lead in to the article that =
triggered=20
              this thread.</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
              <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
              style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; =
wrote in=20
                message <A=20
                =
href=3D"news:42bef565@w3.nls.net">news:42bef565@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No I'm not giving up, =
just=20
                admitting that the latest versions don't suffer from the =
same UI=20
                flaws of previous versions. But the fact that so many =
people are=20
                still being fooled by this crap speaks volumes about the =
real=20
                world.</FONT></DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
                <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                  =
href=3D"news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net">news:42bef4a3@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Now you =
give up on=20
                  making false claims about safe and unsafe =
attachments.&nbsp;=20
                  Are you incapable of admiting you are =
wrong?</FONT></DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Are you =
trying to=20
                  suggest that someone that downloads a ZIP file, opens =
that=20
                  file, opens something from that file, and then still =
ignores=20
                  the warning about it being unsafe should blame any =
unwanted=20
                  consequences on whom, you?&nbsp; How often do you =
infect=20
                  yourself this way?</FONT></DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                    =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt; wrote=20
                    in message <A=20
                    =
href=3D"news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net">news:42beee3d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>not if it's in a =
zip=20
                    file.</FONT></DIV>
                    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                      =
href=3D"news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net">news:42beebc0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; To =
try to fool=20
                      the few people like you that ignore all the other=20
                      signs.&nbsp; When OE is configured to allow unsafe =
file=20
                      types it displays the&nbsp;.scr&nbsp;extension =
even for=20
                      the long path.&nbsp; It also displays the =
appropriate icon=20
                      which for the example you give is an application =
icon not=20
                      a JPEG icon.&nbsp; Outlook and OE still block it =
or warn=20
                      about it depending on settings.&nbsp; =
</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                        =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
                        wrote in message <A=20
                        =
href=3D"news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net">news:42bec43b$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You don't =
believe the=20
                        current UI with the way it displays an icon has =
had an=20
                        effect?</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why then do =
email virus use=20
                        such long attachment names?</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
                        =
size=3D2>Sheep.jpg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
                        .scr</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>explain =
that.</FONT></DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
                        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
                          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                          =
href=3D"news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net">news:42be1eb8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
The icons=20
                          reflect the icons elsewhere in the UI.&nbsp; I =
believe=20
                          this makes sense and do not believe that this =
UI=20
                          consistency makes users more likely to make =
bad=20
                          choices.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
File=20
                          extensions being hidden or not, and they are =
not on=20
                          file attachments, is not the issue.&nbsp; I =
realize=20
                          that this is a topic you like to whine about =
because=20
                          you believe that your preference is right for=20
                          everyone.&nbsp; Do you really believe the the =
clueless=20
                          that ignore warnings would pay attention to=20
                          this?&nbsp; This is all moot given that unsafe =
email=20
                          attachments are blocked and the article was =
describing=20
                          people downloading from the web not opening an =

                          attachment.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
As for your=20
                          claim to show a difference, this happens in a =
very=20
                          obvious way.&nbsp; Users are warned about =
dangerous=20
                          files and not warned about safe ones.&nbsp; =
The=20
                          problem is that many ignore the =
warnings.&nbsp; This=20
                          is the topic discussed in the email to which =
you=20
                          replied and one which you completely ignored =
in your=20
                          reply.</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                          style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px">
                            <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A=20
                            =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
                            wrote in message <A=20
                            =
href=3D"news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net">news:42be194e$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The answer =
is very=20
                            simple, instead of hiding dangerous =
attachments,=20
                            show the users that these are somehow =
different from=20
                            other attachments, something as simple as =
changing=20
                            the icon to a skull and crossbones. To make =
it so=20
                            that profession users can't open an =
attachment=20
                            without an exchange server is just plain=20
                            rude.</FONT></DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem =
is MS has=20
                            spent recent history trying to hide=20
                            file&nbsp;extensions from the users, so now =
we have=20
                            a bunch of clueless users when it comes to =
telling=20
                            which file types are safe and which are=20
                            not.</FONT></DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                            <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
                            <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
                            style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px">
                              <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
                              =
href=3D"news:42be015f@w3.nls.net">news:42be015f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't=20
                              see an easy answer.&nbsp;&nbsp;The issue=20
                              is&nbsp;not that users are warned =
when&nbsp;there=20
                              is no reason too, it's that they got =
lucky.&nbsp;=20
                              A better analogy than a combination lock =
is=20
                              Russian roulette.&nbsp; It's always =
dangerous=20
                              which is why there is a warning.&nbsp;=20
                              </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What =
would you=20
                              do?</FONT></DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; On a=20
                              related note, how do you make a user that =
just=20
                              wants things to "work" and clicks OK =
because it=20
                              doesn't "work" if he makes another choice =
to care=20
                              about such choices?&nbsp; You can remove =
the=20
                              choice which is the position taken with =
Outlook=20
                              and dangerous attachments.&nbsp; There =
were plenty=20
                              that complained including folks here when =
that=20
                              happened.</FONT></DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
                              <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
                            =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C57C2F.76839850--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)