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Text 5929, 152 rader
Skriven 2005-07-11 21:51:22 av Rich (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 5921 av John Beckett (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Unleash Sasser worm - infect 1 million - get 30 hours community ser
===============================================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

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   I think you are making a false premise which is that if eeye was not =
irresponsible and providing instructions or if people did not act on = those
instructions then no one would fix bugs.  I think this is clearly = false
because there are people not irresponsible and self-serving like = eeye,
vulerabilities irresponsibly disclosed that do not become worms, = and bugs
fixed that are not vulnerabilities.  The economic imperative is = a combination
of customer satisfaction and being better than the = competition.

   It is stupid remarks like worms being good for anything that probably =
provide justification to the irresponsible and self-serving folks like = eeye
(though money is probably their major motivation) and the malicious = and
criminal folks that create and release malware.  That many companies = have
response teams is a reflect of the need due to folks like these = that do not
care about you and their behavior, which you are = encouraging, and nothing
else.  Do you think that redhat only released = 98 security updates for redhat
enterprise desktop linux 4 only in the = five months since release =
(https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh-desktop-4-errata-security.html) only =
because they are embarrased?

Rich

  "John Beckett" <FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit> wrote in message =
news:jcf6d19hkt5jhdeo72m91p154epmdbf5pb@4ax.com...
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:<42d280e3$1@w3.nls.net>:
  >    Again my counter example is someone breaking into george's home
  > and killing his wife and children has the same benefit you attribute =
to the
  > irresponsible and criminal folks here.  Sure, george's wife and kids =
are
  > dead but he has learned a lesson as have his neighbors that may help
  > them protect themselves from the same or worse.

  I know you realise that an argument by analogy is invalid.

  I don't shout with joy when another worm strikes, but I am watching =
your
  reluctance to see any redeeming features in the Q&D worms with =
amusement.

  There has to be an economic imperative to guide security by the vendor =
and
  by the customers. Without the worms etc, all we would have would be
  marketing BS. Microsoft has been embarassed quite a lot in the last =
couple
  of years, but imagine the real pain that would have eventually =
descended
  if there had been no worms etc.

  John

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I think you are making a =
false premise=20
which is that if eeye was not irresponsible and providing instructions = or
if=20
people did not act on those instructions then no one would fix = bugs.&nbsp;
I=20
think this is clearly false because there are people not irresponsible = and=20
self-serving like eeye, vulerabilities irresponsibly disclosed that do = not=20
become worms, and bugs fixed that are not vulnerabilities.&nbsp; The =
economic=20
imperative is a combination of customer satisfaction and being better = than
the=20
competition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; It is stupid remarks like =
worms being=20
good for anything that probably provide justification to the = irresponsible
and=20
self-serving folks like eeye (though money is probably their major =
motivation)=20
and the malicious and criminal folks that create and release = malware.&nbsp;
That=20
many companies have response teams is a reflect of the need due =
to&nbsp;folks=20
like these that do not care about you and their behavior, which you are=20
encouraging,&nbsp;and nothing else.&nbsp; Do you think that redhat only =
released=20
98 security updates for redhat enterprise desktop linux 4&nbsp;only in = the
five=20
months since release (<A=20
href=3D"https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh-desktop-4-errata-security.html">=
https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh-desktop-4-errata-security.html</A>)=20
only because they are embarrased?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"John Beckett" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit">FirstnameSurname@com=
puserve.com.omit</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:jcf6d19hkt5jhdeo72m91p154epmdbf5pb@4ax.com">news:jcf6d19hkt5=
jhdeo72m91p154epmdbf5pb@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>"Rich"=20
  &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:<42d280e3$1@w3.nls.net">news:&lt;42d280e3$1@w3.nls.net</A>&g=
t;:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Again my counter example is someone breaking into george's =
home<BR>&gt; and=20
  killing his wife and children has the same benefit you attribute to=20
  the<BR>&gt; irresponsible and criminal folks here.&nbsp; Sure, =
george's wife=20
  and kids are<BR>&gt; dead but he has learned a lesson as have his =
neighbors=20
  that may help<BR>&gt; them protect themselves from the same or =
worse.<BR><BR>I=20
  know you realise that an argument by analogy is invalid.<BR><BR>I =
don't shout=20
  with joy when another worm strikes, but I am watching =
your<BR>reluctance to=20
  see any redeeming features in the Q&amp;D worms with =
amusement.<BR><BR>There=20
  has to be an economic imperative to guide security by the vendor =
and<BR>by the=20
  customers. Without the worms etc, all we would have would =
be<BR>marketing BS.=20
  Microsoft has been embarassed quite a lot in the last couple<BR>of =
years, but=20
  imagine the real pain that would have eventually descended<BR>if there =
had=20
  been no worms etc.<BR><BR>John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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