Text 5966, 538 rader
Skriven 2005-07-13 08:42:38 av Geo (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 5952 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Continuing Microsoft Office improvements
====================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>
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See this doesn't work for me because now the slightest desire for a =
modification and you can claim they are not satisfied with the product. = The
reality is they have a choice, product A, B, C, D whatever and they = will
choose the one that is the best fit and then be satisfied that they = are using
the best available, not the perfect product.
Using your definition, there isn't a piece of software ever created with =
which I'm satisfied.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d4baf7@w3.nls.net...
Because it doesn't affect their satisfaction with the old version. =
It would affect a value decision on whether to make a purchase but that = is
independent.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d470d8@w3.nls.net...
Why not price? If upgrades were free a lot more might not be =
satisfied with the old version.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d3eb2b@w3.nls.net...
Looking at the new version, yes. Price, no.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d3a774@w3.nls.net...
I think for this discussion satisfied should mean after looking =
at the new version and the price they decide not to upgrade. Because if = I try
to look at it like below, then I'm not satisfied because I want = activation
removed so I can upgrade for no reason but to run the current = version.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d34417@w3.nls.net...
You have to be careful how you judge whether someone is =
satisfied. gary didn't do so and I didn't question him on it because = his
claim is clearly made up.
Anyway, whether someone is satisfied can depend on whether =
the he is aware that something better is available. I'll use my father =
again. He has it in his mind that he needs a faster computer. His = current
computer is faster than his previous one which is faster than = the one before
that. He knows that faster computers are available and I = believe it is
because of that that his satisfaction with his current one = has decreased.
I'll give another example. A good friend of mine has = been watching TV for
around 40 years. Was he satisfied by his TV, yep. = Then he got a tivo. He
is no longer satisfied by a TV without a PVR. = In both cases, the user has
something good enough and in both cases the = user is no longer satisfied by
what he had before once he knows what he = is missing.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d335f8$1@w3.nls.net...
I don't know if I'd be satisfied with that version since I =
didn't start using office until Office 97. However I'm completely = satisfied
using Qpro version 5 from 1993 so I don't see why I should = consider his
statement false simply because I don't have a version that = old.
For me it's not a question of which version was good enough, =
I like to keep current so the question is at which version does or did = it
become unacceptable. Typically becoming unacceptable is why I stop = upgrading
a product.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d32432@w3.nls.net...
Irrelevant question and you fail to fall ib gary's =
bogus 95% unless you would be satisfied with Office 5.0 for Windows 3.1.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d30077$1@w3.nls.net...
Ok time for a survey.
I run Office 2000, what versions do the rest of you run?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d29689@w3.nls.net...
If you truly expect 95% than I believe you are full =
of it and just making up junk to sound as if you know something. Use = "some"
if you mean some.
Rich
"Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in message =
news:42d292af$1@w3.nls.net...
I never said it wasn't. What is it about the =
definition of the words "I
Suspect" that seem to so trouble your reading =
comprehension. Quit being
such a touchy ass about this. Its not my fault =
nobody wants to upgrade
their MS Office software.
Your employer needs to build a business model that =
doesn't rely upon full
cost monopoly priced upgrades of products every 9 =
months. That isn't my
fault either. Eventually, people say "wait a =
minute", again not my fault.
I guess Microsoft could get lots of office upgrades =
if they just make
Longhorn incompatible with every version of MS =
Office except <FILL IN NAME
OF VERSION HERE>.
Gary
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d28167@w3.nls.net...
And I still think you have no clue. The 95% you =
keep claiming is a
number you pulled out of thin air.
Rich
"Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in =
message
news:42d265b2$1@w3.nls.net...
You are right that my perspective does not extend =
outside the USA.
I never said there weren't *improvements* from =
Office 5.0 to the later
versions. I am saying those *improvements* are =
meaningless to 95% of the
market, and in MANY or MOST situations those =
*improvements* are offset by
dis-incentives and negative changes that are more =
negative than the
improvements are positive.
I like office 2000, have no plans to go above =
office 2000. Truth is, I
could easily stayed with Office 5. I suspect that =
truth holds for 95% of
the market within my perspective.
Gary
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d1b1ad$1@w3.nls.net...
95% what market? You surely do not mean people =
that speak many
non-Western languages because Unicode support did =
not appear until Office
97
and support for more languages and better support =
for existing ones
continued to improve with successive releases. =
With your broad brush you
are discounting a great deal of the people on this =
planet. Far more than
5%. Western European language speaker are the =
minority. Even you would
have to be blind to not see the clear improvements =
between Office 5.0 or
even Office 95 and Office 2000.
I suspect you have no clue what the =
improvements are in the two
releases
since the one you use. If I'm wrong feel free to =
tell us all which Office
2003 applications you use and what differences you =
perceived.
Rich
"Gary Britt" <zotu@nospamforme.com> wrote in =
message
news:42d194f6$1@w3.nls.net...
The truth be told, Office for Win95 and Office =
5.0 for Win3.1 was good
enough for 95% of the market.
I've stayed at the Office 2K level with no =
intention on the horizon of
going
higher.
Gary
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>See this doesn't work for me because =
now the=20
slightest desire for a modification and you can claim they are not=20
satisfied with the product. The reality is they have a choice, product = A, B,
C,=20
D whatever and they will choose the one that is the best fit and then be =
satisfied that they are using the best available, not the perfect=20
product.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Using your definition, there isn't a =
piece of=20
software ever created with which I'm satisfied.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d4baf7@w3.nls.net">news:42d4baf7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Because it doesn't =
affect their=20
satisfaction with the old version. It would affect a value =
decision on=20
whether to make a purchase but that is independent.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d470d8@w3.nls.net">news:42d470d8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why not price? If upgrades were =
free a lot more=20
might not be satisfied with the old version.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d3eb2b@w3.nls.net">news:42d3eb2b@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Looking at the =
new version,=20
yes. Price, no.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d3a774@w3.nls.net">news:42d3a774@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think for this discussion =
satisfied=20
should mean after looking at the new version and the price they =
decide=20
not to upgrade. Because if I try to look at it like below, then =
I'm not=20
satisfied because I want activation removed so I can upgrade for =
no=20
reason but to run the current version.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d34417@w3.nls.net">news:42d34417@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You have to be =
careful how=20
you judge whether someone is satisfied. gary didn't do =
so and I=20
didn't question him on it because his claim is clearly made=20
up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Anyway, whether =
someone is=20
satisfied can depend on whether the he is aware that something =
better=20
is available. I'll use my father again. He has it =
in his=20
mind that he needs a faster computer. His current =
computer is=20
faster than his previous one which is faster than the one =
before=20
that. He knows that faster computers are available and I =
believe=20
it is because of that that his satisfaction with his current =
one has=20
decreased. I'll give another example. A good =
friend of=20
mine has been watching TV for around 40 years. Was he =
satisfied=20
by his TV, yep. Then he got a tivo. He is no =
longer=20
satisfied by a TV without a PVR. In both cases, the user =
has=20
something good enough and in both cases the user is no longer=20
satisfied by what he had before once he knows what =
he is=20
missing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d335f8$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d335f8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know if I'd be =
satisfied with=20
that version since I didn't start using office until Office =
97.=20
However I'm completely satisfied using Qpro version 5 from =
1993 so I=20
don't see why I should consider his statement false simply =
because I=20
don't have a version that old.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For me it's not a question =
of which=20
version was good enough, I like to keep current so the =
question is=20
at which version does or did it become unacceptable. =
Typically=20
becoming unacceptable is why I stop upgrading a=20
product.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d32432@w3.nls.net">news:42d32432@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Irrelevant =
question and=20
you fail to fall ib gary's bogus 95% unless you would be =
satisfied=20
with Office 5.0 for Windows 3.1.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d30077$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d30077$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok time for a =
survey.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I run Office 2000, what =
versions do=20
the rest of you run?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d29689@w3.nls.net">news:42d29689@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> If you =
truly expect=20
95% than I believe you are full of it and just making =
up junk=20
to sound as if you know something. Use "some" if =
you=20
mean some.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Gary Britt" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:zotu@nospamforme.com">zotu@nospamforme.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d292af$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d292af$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>I=20
never said it wasn't. What is it about the =
definition=20
of the words "I<BR>Suspect" that seem to so trouble =
your=20
reading comprehension. Quit being<BR>such a =
touchy ass=20
about this. Its not my fault nobody wants to=20
upgrade<BR>their MS Office software.<BR><BR>Your =
employer=20
needs to build a business model that doesn't rely =
upon=20
full<BR>cost monopoly priced upgrades of products =
every 9=20
months. That isn't my<BR>fault either. =20
Eventually, people say "wait a minute", again not my =
fault.<BR><BR>I guess Microsoft could get lots of =
office=20
upgrades if they just make<BR>Longhorn incompatible =
with=20
every version of MS Office except <FILL IN =
NAME<BR>OF=20
VERSION HERE>.<BR><BR>Gary<BR><BR>"Rich" =
<@> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d28167@w3.nls.net">news:42d28167@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>&nbs=
p; =20
And I still think you have no clue. The 95% =
you keep=20
claiming is a<BR>number you pulled out of thin=20
air.<BR><BR>Rich<BR><BR> "Gary Britt" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:zotu@nospamforme.com">zotu@nospamforme.com</A>>=20
wrote in message<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d265b2$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d265b2$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
You are right that my perspective does not extend =
outside=20
the USA.<BR><BR> I never said there weren't=20
*improvements* from Office 5.0 to the =
later<BR> =20
versions. I am saying those *improvements* are =
meaningless to 95% of the<BR> market, and in =
MANY or=20
MOST situations those *improvements* are offset =
by<BR> =20
dis-incentives and negative changes that are more =
negative=20
than the<BR> improvements are =
positive.<BR><BR> =20
I like office 2000, have no plans to go above office =
2000. Truth is, I<BR> could easily =
stayed with=20
Office 5. I suspect that truth holds for 95%=20
of<BR> the market within my =
perspective.<BR><BR> =20
Gary<BR><BR> "Rich" <@> wrote in message =
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d1b1ad$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d1b1ad$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
95% what market? You surely do not mean people =
that=20
speak many<BR> non-Western languages because =
Unicode=20
support did not appear until Office<BR>97<BR> =
and=20
support for more languages and better support for =
existing=20
ones<BR> continued to improve with successive=20
releases. With your broad brush you<BR> =
are=20
discounting a great deal of the people on this =
planet. =20
Far more than<BR> 5%. Western European =
language=20
speaker are the minority. Even you =
would<BR> =20
have to be blind to not see the clear improvements =
between=20
Office 5.0 or<BR> even Office 95 and Office=20
2000.<BR><BR> I suspect you =
have no=20
clue what the improvements are in the=20
two<BR>releases<BR> since the one you =
use. If=20
I'm wrong feel free to tell us all which =
Office<BR> =20
2003 applications you use and what differences you=20
perceived.<BR><BR> =
Rich<BR><BR> =20
"Gary Britt" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:zotu@nospamforme.com">zotu@nospamforme.com</A>>=20
wrote in message<BR> <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d194f6$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d194f6$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
=20
The truth be told, Office for Win95 and Office 5.0 =
for=20
Win3.1 was good<BR> enough for 95% =
of the=20
market.<BR><BR> I've stayed at the =
Office=20
2K level with no intention on the horizon =
of<BR> =20
going<BR> =20
higher.<BR><BR> =20
=
Gary<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
CKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
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