Text 6041, 416 rader
Skriven 2005-07-14 17:59:50 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 6034 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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The thread I remember was mike miller and/or tony claiming that it =
was impossible to connect safely with Windows 2000 and both you and I =
responding that it is possible. It's even easier with Windows XP.
Of course, it wouldn't be a bad idea for ISPs such as nls.net to =
protect their customers though given your stated position of it being = good
for machines to be infected that might explain why you might not do = so.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:42d6c173@w3.nls.net...
So every time someone reinstalls and goes on the internet, what =
happens that they become infected before they can get to windows update? =
Didn't we just have a thread on what you have to do to get to = windowsupdate
and patch without getting wormed first?
I mean if you can't get patched before getting wormed, that's pretty =
defective in my book.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d69cd7@w3.nls.net...
Your car analogy is a bad one. Cars are recalled to the dealer, =
not the factory, because the consumer can't apply fixes at home. = Software
doesn't work that way.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net...
Providing copies of windows in the box that are not fully patched =
should be proof enough. If MS were a car company, they would have to = issue a
recall every time there was a critical update released.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net...
So please give an example of irresponsible pr from Microsoft. =
The 5 year old q&a to which you linked is not an example. Since you =
are trying to compare this to the irresponsible self-serving pr from = eeye,
you should find a comparable example such as providing the = instructions
necessary to create malware like that eeye provides.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net...
Microsoft doesn't promote malware, they do however use lots of =
irresponsible self-serving pr.
Stuff like this line of bullshit then taking 188 days to patch =
a remote root anonymous exploit =
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03securityqa.ms=
px
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net...
Give me example of a Microsoft pr, say a page on =
www.microsoft.com, that provides the information needed for someone to = create
malware like eeye does.
By interesting I mean intelectually interesting. As for =
understanding, I think you confuse disagreement with and understanding = of.
It's a common flaw.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net...
I don't have a problem with their self-serving =
irresponsible pr any more than I do with microsofts irresponsible =
self-serving pr, that's a hangup that seems to be unique to you.
As for interesting, you appear to be a programmer not a =
hacker so why would you find anything to do with hacking interesting? = You've
proven several times that you don't even understand the hacker = mindset.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net...
You clearly buy into their self-serving irresponsible =
pr more than I do. I was a bit surprised when you stated a few messages = back
that they steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities from others and = take credit
for themselves. While they do not do much interesting, I = had at least though
it was their own. you actually lowered my opinion = of them even further.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net...
Oh give me a break, these guys single handedly =
destroyed NT's security reputation.
Hell they were the reason for the "information =
anarchy" program to silence the security lists.
Geo.=20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net...
An extraordinary one. I suspect there isn't a =
significant difference between what they could do and what you could do =
taking advantage of published information. The only thing remarkable = about
these folks is that they publish press releases putting the public = at risk to
promote themselves for financial gain.
Rich
"John Beckett" =
<FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit> wrote in message =
news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com...
"Rich" <@> wrote in message =
news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net>:
> You should remember that this is true only in =
george's imagination.
Perhaps the 95% is an exaggeration. But there have =
been many examples (I
think starting with the IIS debacles) that show =
that eeye could have owned
an extremely large number of computers if =
Microsoft had not changed its
"release when it's good enough" attitude.
John
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The thread I remember was =
mike miller=20
and/or tony claiming that it was impossible to connect safely with = Windows
2000=20
and both you and I responding that it is possible. It's even = easier
with=20
Windows XP.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Of course, it wouldn't be =
a bad idea=20
for ISPs such as nls.net to protect their customers though given your =
stated=20
position of it being good for machines to be infected that might explain = why
you=20
might not do so.</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Rich</DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d6c173@w3.nls.net">news:42d6c173@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So every time someone reinstalls and =
goes on the=20
internet, what happens that they become infected before they can get =
to=20
windows update? Didn't we just have a thread on what you have to do to =
get to=20
windowsupdate and patch without getting wormed first?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I mean if you can't get patched =
before getting=20
wormed, that's pretty defective in my book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d69cd7@w3.nls.net">news:42d69cd7@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Your car analogy is a =
bad=20
one. Cars are recalled to the dealer, not the factory, because =
the=20
consumer can't apply fixes at home. Software doesn't work that =
way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d68fad$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Providing copies of windows in =
the box that=20
are not fully patched should be proof enough. If MS were a car =
company,=20
they would have to issue a recall every time there was a critical =
update=20
released.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net">news:42d5f07d@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> So please give an =
example of=20
irresponsible pr from Microsoft. The 5 year old q&a to =
which=20
you linked is not an example. Since you are trying to =
compare this=20
to the irresponsible self-serving pr from eeye, you should find =
a=20
comparable example such as providing the instructions necessary =
to=20
create malware like that eeye provides.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net">news:42d5ed41@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Microsoft doesn't promote =
malware, they=20
do however use lots of irresponsible self-serving =
pr.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stuff like this line of =
bullshit then=20
taking 188 days to patch a remote root anonymous exploit <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03secur=
ityqa.mspx">http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/Features/2001/Oct01/10-03s=
ecurityqa.mspx</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net">news:42d5457f@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Give me =
example of=20
a Microsoft pr, say a page on <A=20
href=3D"http://www.microsoft.com">www.microsoft.com</A>, =
that provides=20
the information needed for someone to create malware like =
eeye=20
does.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> By interesting =
I mean=20
intelectually interesting. As for understanding, I =
think you=20
confuse disagreement with and understanding of. It's a =
common=20
flaw.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net">news:42d51209$2@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't have a problem =
with their=20
self-serving irresponsible pr any more than I do with =
microsofts=20
irresponsible self-serving pr, that's a hangup that seems =
to be=20
unique to you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for interesting, you =
appear to be=20
a programmer not a hacker so why would you find anything =
to do=20
with hacking interesting? You've proven several times that =
you=20
don't even understand the hacker mindset.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net">news:42d4bd97@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You =
clearly buy=20
into their self-serving irresponsible pr more than =
I=20
do. I was a bit surprised when you stated a few =
messages=20
back that they steal the ideas for the vulnerabilities =
from=20
others and take credit for themselves. While they =
do not=20
do much interesting, I had at least though it was their=20
own. you actually lowered my opinion of them even=20
further.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d47f65$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh give me a break, =
these guys=20
single handedly destroyed NT's security=20
reputation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hell they were the =
reason for the=20
"information anarchy" program to silence the =
security=20
lists.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Geo.</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d36801$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> An =
extraordinary=20
one. I suspect there isn't a significant =
difference=20
between what they could do and what you could =
do taking=20
advantage of published information. The only =
thing=20
remarkable about these folks is that they publish =
press=20
releases putting the public at risk to promote =
themselves=20
for financial gain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"John Beckett" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:FirstnameSurname@compuserve.com.omit">FirstnameSurname@com=
puserve.com.omit</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:rcl6d1hegtubg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com">news:rcl6d1hegtu=
bg74l7fc4t8e0haom1kvkrc@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net">news:<42d3503e$1@w3.nls.net</A>&g=
t;:<BR>> =20
You should remember that this is true only in =
george's=20
imagination.<BR><BR>Perhaps the 95% is an =
exaggeration.=20
But there have been many examples (I<BR>think =
starting=20
with the IIS debacles) that show that eeye could =
have=20
owned<BR>an extremely large number of computers if =
Microsoft had not changed its<BR>"release when =
it's good=20
enough"=20
=
attitude.<BR><BR>John<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQU=
OTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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