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Text 6099, 273 rader
Skriven 2005-07-16 12:48:06 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6091 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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and nobody cares when an employee of the manufacturer of the flawed = product
bitches about the people exposing the flaws. Eeye does not need = you to excuse
them.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net...
     eeye's irresponsible self-serving actions are not excused by anyone =
else's actions good or bad, particularly when you make bad analogies.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net...
    eeye is not posting instructions on how to kill computer users, they =
are posting details of flaws in consumer product.

    And I picked the SMB flaw as an example because it's the kind of =
flaw that's likely to be the next worm vector.

    As for the question of eeye providing protection and at the same =
time providing details of a flaw, how did you feel about the details of = that
bicycle lock that could be opened with a ball point pen? Did you = have an
issue with those details being released on the national news = because I
thought that was a good thing. It showed the public just how = piss poor a lock
that junk was. I would however imagine the lock = manufacturer has an attitude
similar to yours, that the information = never should have been released and I
would imagine they would use the = same bs arguments you are using.

    Consumers have a right to know the details of the flaws found in =
consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a bicycle lock, software, a = circuit
breaker, their cars, whatever.

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net...
         Do you really believe that your doors and windows protect you =
from outright attack?  If so you are surely going to be sorry.  You = escape
harm simply because you one attacks you.  Post instructions on = how to do so
and thereby lower the threshold and you will increase the = likelihood of
attack.  If someone like eeye came to you and said that = they would sell you
protection and at the same time provided attackers = the information they need,
how you would feel about that extortion?

         Where do you get the idea that detailed instructions are =
missing?  Maybe the description isn't sufficient for you but I assure = you
that it is sufficient for others.  And this example, which I'm sure = you
picked because you thought it weak on details, is not = representitive.  If you
want to demonstrate that they do not cause the = great harm that they do you
will need to show that they never do this = not that there exists a single
instance where you thought they did not.

      Rich

        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net...
        First off, if the security of my home was compromised by a flaw =
in a consumer product I would fully support the posting of the details = of
that flaw.

        Second, the detailed exploit instructions are not there, only a =
flaw description is there and only that description is what I and others = want
access to. I believe the attached is the detailed exploit = instructions and
they are only for a DOS not for the remote root = exploit. Of course since you
claim this is already available to all of = us at the eeye URL I linked to you
shouldn't have an issue with me = posting it here, huh?

        Geo.
          "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net...
             Such bullshit.  It's not just that you are paranoid, you =
are being silly.  Please post the detailed instructions for anyone to = break
into your home and kill your wife and family.  You shouldn't keep = this
information exclusive to you.  Others may find this useful to = protect
themselves.  If it puts your family at risk, so what.  = "Information" like
this should be free for all.

             As for the eeye press release to which you refer, it sure =
does provide detailed instructions.  It may be that you don't recognize = the
terminology but it is there, specific, and detailed.

          Rich

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and nobody cares when an employee of =
the=20
manufacturer of the flawed product bitches about the people exposing the =
flaws.=20
Eeye does not need you to excuse them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net">news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; eeye's irresponsible =
self-serving=20
  actions are not excused by anyone else's actions good or bad, =
particularly=20
  when you make bad analogies.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>eeye is not posting instructions on =
how to kill=20
    computer users, they are posting details of flaws in consumer=20
    product.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I picked the SMB flaw as an =
example because=20
    it's the kind of flaw that's&nbsp;likely to be the next worm=20
    vector.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the question of eeye =
providing=20
    protection and at the same time providing details of a flaw, how did =
you=20
    feel about the details of that bicycle lock that could be opened =
with a ball=20
    point pen? Did you have an issue with those details being released =
on the=20
    national news because I thought that was a good thing. It showed the =
public=20
    just how piss poor a lock that junk was. I would however imagine the =
lock=20
    manufacturer has an attitude similar to yours, that the information =
never=20
    should have been released and I would imagine they would use the =
same bs=20
    arguments you are using.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consumers have a right to know the =
details of=20
    the flaws found in consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a =
bicycle lock,=20
    software, a circuit breaker, their cars, whatever.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net">news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you really =
believe that your=20
      doors and windows protect you from outright attack?&nbsp; If so =
you are=20
      surely going to be sorry.&nbsp; You escape harm simply because you =
one=20
      attacks you.&nbsp; Post instructions on how to do so and thereby =
lower the=20
      threshold and you will increase the likelihood of attack.&nbsp; If =
someone=20
      like eeye came to you and said that they would sell you protection =
and at=20
      the same time provided attackers the information they need, how =
you would=20
      feel about that extortion?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Where do you get the =
idea that=20
      detailed instructions are missing?&nbsp; Maybe the description =
isn't=20
      sufficient for you but I assure you that it is sufficient for=20
      others.&nbsp; And this example, which I'm sure you picked because =
you=20
      thought it weak on details, is not representitive.&nbsp; If you =
want to=20
      demonstrate that they do not cause the great harm that they do you =
will=20
      need to show that they never do this not that there exists a =
single=20
      instance where you thought they did not.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
        wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net">news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off, if the security of =
my home was=20
        compromised by a flaw in a consumer product I would fully =
support the=20
        posting of the details of that flaw.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second, the&nbsp;detailed =
exploit=20
        instructions are not there, only a flaw description is there and =
only=20
        that description is what I and others want access to. I believe =
the=20
        attached is the&nbsp;detailed exploit&nbsp;instructions and they =
are=20
        only for a DOS not for the remote root exploit. Of course since =
you=20
        claim this is already available to all of us&nbsp;at the eeye =
URL I=20
        linked to you shouldn't have an issue with me posting it here,=20
        huh?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net">news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Such =
bullshit.&nbsp; It's=20
          not just that you are paranoid, you are being silly.&nbsp; =
Please post=20
          the detailed instructions for anyone to break into your home =
and kill=20
          your wife and family.&nbsp; You shouldn't keep this =
information=20
          exclusive to you.&nbsp; Others may find this useful to protect =

          themselves.&nbsp; If it puts your family at risk, so =
what.&nbsp;=20
          "Information" like this should be free for all.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the eeye =
press=20
          release to which you refer, it sure does provide detailed=20
          instructions.&nbsp; It may be that you don't recognize the =
terminology=20
          but it is there, specific, and detailed.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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