Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   6766/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3205
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13258
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32677
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2053
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33888
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24094
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4393
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13598
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16069
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22090
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   924
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 6099, 273 rader
Skriven 2005-07-16 12:48:06 av Geo (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 6091 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: eeye's irresponsible self-serving behavior
======================================================
From: "Geo" <georger@nls.net>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C58A04.9D405B30
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

and nobody cares when an employee of the manufacturer of the flawed = product
bitches about the people exposing the flaws. Eeye does not need = you to excuse
them.

Geo.
  "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net...
     eeye's irresponsible self-serving actions are not excused by anyone =
else's actions good or bad, particularly when you make bad analogies.

  Rich

    "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net...
    eeye is not posting instructions on how to kill computer users, they =
are posting details of flaws in consumer product.

    And I picked the SMB flaw as an example because it's the kind of =
flaw that's likely to be the next worm vector.

    As for the question of eeye providing protection and at the same =
time providing details of a flaw, how did you feel about the details of = that
bicycle lock that could be opened with a ball point pen? Did you = have an
issue with those details being released on the national news = because I
thought that was a good thing. It showed the public just how = piss poor a lock
that junk was. I would however imagine the lock = manufacturer has an attitude
similar to yours, that the information = never should have been released and I
would imagine they would use the = same bs arguments you are using.

    Consumers have a right to know the details of the flaws found in =
consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a bicycle lock, software, a = circuit
breaker, their cars, whatever.

    Geo.
      "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net...
         Do you really believe that your doors and windows protect you =
from outright attack?  If so you are surely going to be sorry.  You = escape
harm simply because you one attacks you.  Post instructions on = how to do so
and thereby lower the threshold and you will increase the = likelihood of
attack.  If someone like eeye came to you and said that = they would sell you
protection and at the same time provided attackers = the information they need,
how you would feel about that extortion?

         Where do you get the idea that detailed instructions are =
missing?  Maybe the description isn't sufficient for you but I assure = you
that it is sufficient for others.  And this example, which I'm sure = you
picked because you thought it weak on details, is not = representitive.  If you
want to demonstrate that they do not cause the = great harm that they do you
will need to show that they never do this = not that there exists a single
instance where you thought they did not.

      Rich

        "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net...
        First off, if the security of my home was compromised by a flaw =
in a consumer product I would fully support the posting of the details = of
that flaw.

        Second, the detailed exploit instructions are not there, only a =
flaw description is there and only that description is what I and others = want
access to. I believe the attached is the detailed exploit = instructions and
they are only for a DOS not for the remote root = exploit. Of course since you
claim this is already available to all of = us at the eeye URL I linked to you
shouldn't have an issue with me = posting it here, huh?

        Geo.
          "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net...
             Such bullshit.  It's not just that you are paranoid, you =
are being silly.  Please post the detailed instructions for anyone to = break
into your home and kill your wife and family.  You shouldn't keep = this
information exclusive to you.  Others may find this useful to = protect
themselves.  If it puts your family at risk, so what.  = "Information" like
this should be free for all.

             As for the eeye press release to which you refer, it sure =
does provide detailed instructions.  It may be that you don't recognize = the
terminology but it is there, specific, and detailed.

          Rich

------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C58A04.9D405B30
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and nobody cares when an employee of =
the=20
manufacturer of the flawed product bitches about the people exposing the =
flaws.=20
Eeye does not need you to excuse them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net">news:42d88a08@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; eeye's irresponsible =
self-serving=20
  actions are not excused by anyone else's actions good or bad, =
particularly=20
  when you make bad analogies.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
    wrote in message <A=20
    =
href=3D"news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net">news:42d83d33$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>eeye is not posting instructions on =
how to kill=20
    computer users, they are posting details of flaws in consumer=20
    product.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And I picked the SMB flaw as an =
example because=20
    it's the kind of flaw that's&nbsp;likely to be the next worm=20
    vector.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the question of eeye =
providing=20
    protection and at the same time providing details of a flaw, how did =
you=20
    feel about the details of that bicycle lock that could be opened =
with a ball=20
    point pen? Did you have an issue with those details being released =
on the=20
    national news because I thought that was a good thing. It showed the =
public=20
    just how piss poor a lock that junk was. I would however imagine the =
lock=20
    manufacturer has an attitude similar to yours, that the information =
never=20
    should have been released and I would imagine they would use the =
same bs=20
    arguments you are using.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consumers have a right to know the =
details of=20
    the flaws found in consumer products. Be it a kids car seat, a =
bicycle lock,=20
    software, a circuit breaker, their cars, whatever.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
      =
href=3D"news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net">news:42d82aee@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you really =
believe that your=20
      doors and windows protect you from outright attack?&nbsp; If so =
you are=20
      surely going to be sorry.&nbsp; You escape harm simply because you =
one=20
      attacks you.&nbsp; Post instructions on how to do so and thereby =
lower the=20
      threshold and you will increase the likelihood of attack.&nbsp; If =
someone=20
      like eeye came to you and said that they would sell you protection =
and at=20
      the same time provided attackers the information they need, how =
you would=20
      feel about that extortion?</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Where do you get the =
idea that=20
      detailed instructions are missing?&nbsp; Maybe the description =
isn't=20
      sufficient for you but I assure you that it is sufficient for=20
      others.&nbsp; And this example, which I'm sure you picked because =
you=20
      thought it weak on details, is not representitive.&nbsp; If you =
want to=20
      demonstrate that they do not cause the great harm that they do you =
will=20
      need to show that they never do this not that there exists a =
single=20
      instance where you thought they did not.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV>"Geo" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>&gt;=20
        wrote in message <A=20
        =
href=3D"news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net">news:42d822d0@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First off, if the security of =
my home was=20
        compromised by a flaw in a consumer product I would fully =
support the=20
        posting of the details of that flaw.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Second, the&nbsp;detailed =
exploit=20
        instructions are not there, only a flaw description is there and =
only=20
        that description is what I and others want access to. I believe =
the=20
        attached is the&nbsp;detailed exploit&nbsp;instructions and they =
are=20
        only for a DOS not for the remote root exploit. Of course since =
you=20
        claim this is already available to all of us&nbsp;at the eeye =
URL I=20
        linked to you shouldn't have an issue with me posting it here,=20
        huh?</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV>"Rich" &lt;@&gt; wrote in message <A=20
          =
href=3D"news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net">news:42d7d7c8@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Such =
bullshit.&nbsp; It's=20
          not just that you are paranoid, you are being silly.&nbsp; =
Please post=20
          the detailed instructions for anyone to break into your home =
and kill=20
          your wife and family.&nbsp; You shouldn't keep this =
information=20
          exclusive to you.&nbsp; Others may find this useful to protect =

          themselves.&nbsp; If it puts your family at risk, so =
what.&nbsp;=20
          "Information" like this should be free for all.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for the eeye =
press=20
          release to which you refer, it sure does provide detailed=20
          instructions.&nbsp; It may be that you don't recognize the =
terminology=20
          but it is there, specific, and detailed.</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_008D_01C58A04.9D405B30--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)