Text 13588, 84 rader
Skriven 2005-06-13 22:28:56 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 13564 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Ärende: Hatred
==============
John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 JH> * Originally by: Gary Braswell (1:123/789), 12 Jun 05 20:18.


 JH> 12 Jun 05 20:18, Gary Braswell wrote to Ed Hulett:

 JH>  Ed Hulett ->> Gary Braswell wrote:

 EH>>> Gary Braswell -> VERN HUMPHREY wrote:
 GB>>>> VERN HUMPHREY -> GARY BRASWELL wrote:

 GB>>>>>>>> There is a massive difference. Poor analogies.

 VH>>>>>>> Is there?  Gary, I SAW the graves opened at Hue.

 VH>>>>>>>>> I've seen what Ho and his minions do, first hand.

 GB>>>>>>>> Hey, once they fell in with China and Russia, no argument
 GB>>>>>>>> there.

 VH>>>>>>> Ho and his party were what they were, and you can't blame
 VH>>>>>>> China or Russia for it.

 GB>>>>>> I don't think I did.

 VH>>>>> My point is, Ho was not a man we could back -- any more than we
 VH>>>>> could back Hitler or Tojo.

 GB>>>> We could have, before we even got involved with our own troops.

 EH>>> When Vern says Ho was not a man we could back, I'd believe him.
 EH>>> What evidence do you have that we could have backed Ho?

 GB>> His working with us during WWII against the Chinese, his
 GB>> approaching Claire Chenault who time and again tried to get the US
 GB>> to back Ho against the French trying to re-establish their
 GB>> colonial empire. His desire to emulate the US at that time and
 GB>> establish a democracy.

 JH> He's still stuck on that image of Ho as George Washington that was
 JH> perpetrated by the revisionist historians of the 60's.  Same bunch that
 JH> gave Kerry a pass during his VVAW days.  Ho didn't give a damn who
 JH> helped him, as long as he got what he needed and there were minimal
 JH> strings attached.  Stalin stepped up and the rest is history.

I don't know where Gary gets the idea we were fighting the Chinese during WWII.
We were allies with China. We helped them fight Japan.

 GB>> We backed Saddam, Ed, is he any more cuddly than Ho?

 GB>> Ho started to allow/authorize his own people to be murdered in
 GB>> "the cause", among a great many other evils.

 GB>> But at one time, early on, it was different. Ho, at the time he
 GB>> was dealing with Claire Chenault, fully expected the US to back a
 GB>> democracy movement.

 GB>> Then the Cold War set in.

 GB>> Things changed for everyone.

 JH> Gary needs to do some more reading on the 1945-49 period.  Everybody
 JH> fought against the Japs during the war, including Ho, except for a few
 JH> of communist collaborators.  I had a friend who served in China right
 JH> when the war ended, most of the Japanese troops were paroled and allowed
 JH> to keep their weapons for protection from the Chinese while they waited
 JH> for repatriation.  That's the same time frame when Ho started having
 JH> problems with Chenault, and the nationalists and Mao's tribe starting
 JH> mixing it up.  The few US troops in China and the general area stayed
 JH> out of it for the most part, acting mostly as referees between the
 JH> Chinese and Japanese.  Ho was just another warlord looking for weapons
 JH> and money - one of many from our viewpoint.  Degaulle and Truman had
 JH> already inked the NATO deal by the time Ho ginned up enough gumption to
 JH> ask the US for serious levels of help.

Exactly. That doesn't stop Gary from making silly claims, though. The idea that
if we'd backed Ho we'd not been involved in the war in Vietnam is simplistic at
best. If we'd backed Ho, we'd have aligned ourselves with the communist north.
Against the French.

Ed

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