Text 13762, 102 rader
Skriven 2005-06-26 23:14:13 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 13731 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: KEEP THE PATRIOT ACT
============================
Gary Braswell -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 GB> Ed Hulett -> John Massey wrote:>  GB>>> But what average user will know
 GB> to do even a small part of it?

 EH>>>> The average user has nothing to worry about. The average user isn't
 EH>>>> likely to be a terrorist.

 JM>>> While it may not be feasible now, how long before it is?

 EH>> Point out where the Patriot Act has taken any rights away from the
 EH>> average American.

 GB> Law enforcement agencies, specifically the FBI, can decide to bug you
 GB> and issue search warrants without first going to a judge.

Just how does that take away your rights?

 GB> They decide if you need to be bugged or searched. No need to worry about
 GB> that thing called the Constitution.

Wrong! There is nothing in the Patriot Act that goes against the Constitution.
If there was it would be unConstitutional.

 GB> In addition, you cannot tell anyone of this activity. This includes
 GB> family, friends, the police, the media, a judge, even your attorney, not
 GB> to mention your wife if she is not included in the action taken.

Nonsense!

 GB> They can of course take you in for questioning and anything you say, can
 GB> be used against you and again, you are forbidden counsel.

Total nonsense. There is nothing in the Patriot Act that denies a citizen
cousel.

 GB> I am sure you will want a source for this and a conservative one, so
 GB> check out the book Constitutional Chaos. Written by a conservative judge
 GB> and one who is a regular on Fox.

I am not about to go buy a book. Please provide something I can easily check. I
don't care if it's conservative or not, just give me something I can look up on
the web.

 GB> These items are much talked about and debated in the judicial system.

Oh really? What judicial system would that be?

 JM>>> The fact that someone in the government thinks it would be a good idea
to
 JM>>> keep tabs on virtually every thing you do, every banking transaction,
every
 JM>>> URL you look at, all on the outside chance that it might be helpful to
some
 JM>>> LEA, should scare the hell out of anyone that values their  privacy and
 JM>>> freedom.

 EH>> The government doesn't have access to my banking transactions, nor do
 EH>> they have access to yours. They don't keep tabs on everyone's online
 EH>> activities. The Patriot Act only allows them to look in on the
 EH>> activities of known terrorists.

 GB> Not accurate. You do not have to be a known terrorist, in fact they
 GB> don't even have to suspect you are a terrorist.

Nonsense!

 GB> Once the FBI decides they want to know about you, they can get whatever
 GB> records they want.

More nonsense.

 EH>> Take a look at http://FederalistPatriot.US/papers/03-41_paper.asp and
 EH>> see what The Federalist has to say about it.

 EH>> If you have some concrete example of how law abiding American citiznes
 EH>> have had their right infringed by the Patriot Act I will join you in
 EH>> opposing it, but not until then.

 GB> If you can't talk about it, how can you let anyone know?

Uh huh... I see... so, If you can't tell anyone about it how do you know?

 EH>> So far, no one has shown your claims to be based in fact.

 GB> Do we have wait for it?

Wait for what?

 GB> Frankly I am stunned that conservatives, some of the most ardent
 GB> defenders of the Constitution and untrusting of government, just look
 GB> the other way when it comes to things like this, trusting the same
 GB> people responsible for Ruby Ridge and Waco to do the right thing and
 GB> never abuse power.

Did you look at the url I provided? Here is is again.

http://FederalistPatriot.US/papers/03-41_paper.asp

Ed

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