Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   10008/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3251
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13302
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33441
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33946
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41708
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13615
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16075
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 14257, 257 rader
Skriven 2005-07-25 16:45:26 av Alan Hess
Ärende: innocent Iraqis killed hurts us
=======================================
What can be done to reduce or eliminate American troops killing innocent Iraqi
civilians?  Obviously, with all the suicide bombers, the troops are justifiably
jumpy, but when they kill innocents, that makes survivors and families hate us,
and defeats our whole purpose of being in Iraq.
********

Advertisement
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/iraq/bal-civilians0725,1,3628968.
story?coll=bal-home-headlines

From the Los Angeles Times
Shots to the heart of Iraq
Innocent civilians, including people who are considered vital to building
democracy, are increasingly being killed by U.S. troops.


By Richard C. Paddock
Times Staff Writer

July 25, 2005

BAGHDAD -- Three men in an unmarked sedan pulled up near the headquarters of
the national police major crimes unit. The two passengers, wearing traditional
Arab dishdashagowns, stepped from the car.

At the same moment, a U.S. military convoy emerged from an underpass.
Apparently believing the men were staging an ambush, the Americans fired,
killing one passenger and wounding the other. The sedan's driver was hit in the
head by two bullet fragments.

The soldiers drove on without stopping.

This kind of shooting is far from rare in Baghdad, but the driver of the car
was no ordinary casualty. He was Iraqi police Brig. Gen. Majeed Farraji, chief
of the major crimes unit. His passengers were unarmed hitchhikers whom he was
dropping off on his way to work.

"The reason they shot us is just because the Americans are reckless," the
general said from his hospital bed hours after the July 6 shooting, his head
wrapped in a white bandage. "Nobody punishes them or blames them."

Angered by the growing number of unarmed civilians killed by American troops in
recent weeks, the Iraqi government criticized the shootings and called on U.S.
troops to exercise greater care.

U.S. officials have repeatedly declined requests to disclose the number of
civilians killed in such incidents. Police in Baghdad say they have received
reports that U.S. forces killed 33 unarmed civilians and injured 45 in the
capital between May 1 and July 12 -- an average of nearly one fatality every
two days. This does not include incidents that occurred elsewhere in the
country or were not reported to the police.

The continued shooting of civilians is fueling a growing dislike of the United
States and undermining efforts to convince the public that American soldiers
are here to help. The victims have included doctors, journalists, a professor
-- the kind of people the U.S. is counting on to help build an open and
democratic society.

"Of course the shootings will increase support for the opposition," said
Farraji, 49, who was named a police general with U.S. approval. "The hatred of
the Americans has increased. I myself hate them."

Among the biggest threats U.S. forces face are suicide attacks. Soldiers are
exposed as they stand watch at checkpoints or ride on patrol in the turrets of
their Humvees. The willingness of the assailants to die makes the attacks
difficult to guard against. By their nature, the bombings erode the troops'
trust of the public; every civilian becomes suspect.

U.S. military officials say the troops must protect themselves by shooting the
driver of any suspicious vehicle before it reaches them.

Heavily armed private security contractors, who number in the tens of
thousands, also are authorized by the U.S. government to use deadly force to
protect themselves.

One contractor who works for the U.S. government and saw a colleague killed in
a suicide bombing said it was better to shoot an innocent person than to risk
being killed.

"I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by six," said the contractor, who
insisted that he not be identified by name because he was not authorized to
speak to the media.

The U.S. military says it investigates all shootings by American personnel that
result in death. But U.S. Brig. Gen. Don Alston, spokesman for the
multinational force in Iraq, said he was unaware of any soldier disciplined for
shooting a civilian at a checkpoint or in traffic. Findings are seldom made
public.

A senior U.S. military official in Baghdad, who spoke on condition of
anonymity, said "making no new enemies" was one of the military's priorities.
At the same time, he said, "it's still a combat zone. There are going to be
times when what the soldier needs to do and what the civilian feels he should
be able to do come into conflict."

On June 27, the day he turned 49, Salah Jmor arrived in Baghdad to visit his
family.

His father, Abdul-Rihman Jmor, is the chief of a Kurdish clan that numbers more
than 20,000. Salah had left Iraq 25 years ago for Switzerland, where he earned
a doctorate in international relations and eventually became a Swiss citizen.

For a decade, he represented Iraqi Kurds at the United Nations Office at
Geneva. In 1988, he helped call the world's attention to Saddam Hussein's use
of chemical weapons on Kurds in the northern Iraqi town of Halabja and the
massacre of at least 100,000 Kurds in what is known as the Anfal campaign.

After the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Salah Jmor was offered a post in the new
Iraqi government. But he turned it down, preferring to remain in Geneva, where
he was an associate professor at the Center for International and Comparative
Programs of Kent State University of Ohio.

The morning after he arrived in Baghdad, he decided to go with his younger
brother, architect Abdul-Jabbar Jmor, to his office. Abdul-Jabbar, 38, drove
his Opel hatchback down the eight-lane Mohammed Qasim highway through Central
Baghdad. It was 9:30 a.m. and many vehicles were on the road.

The Opel hatchback is a model favored by insurgents.

The brothers were in the fast lane as a U.S. military convoy of three Humvees
was entering the highway from the Gailani on-ramp. Neither of them saw the
soldiers, Abdul-Jabbar said.

Abruptly, Salah slumped over into his brother's lap. Abdul-Jabbar asked what
was wrong and then saw blood pouring from Salah's head. There was a single
bullet hole in the windshield.

He saw the convoy moving ahead as he pulled over to the side of the road. He
said he had seen no signal to slow down and heard no warning shot.

The soldiers turned around and came back a few minutes later. One said he was
sorry, Abdul-Jabbar said. Together they waited more than an hour for an
ambulance to arrive.

"I asked them, 'Why didn't you shoot me? I am the driver,'" Abdul-Jabbar
recalled. "But they didn't answer me."

Abdul-Jabbar said he and his family had supported the U.S. troops when they
first invaded Iraq, but no longer.

"This kind of incident makes people hate the Americans more and more," he said.
"They don't care about the lives of the people. Each day they make new
enemies."

Switzerland has requested an explanation of Jmor's killing. In Washington, the
State Department said the United States had sent its condolences to the Swiss
government and Jmor's family and that the Pentagon had begun an investigation.
In Baghdad, Abdul-Jabbar said the family had met with the Swiss ambassador but
had received no expression of condolences from the U.S. government. No U.S.
investigator has contacted the family, he added.

There is a strong tradition of revenge in Iraq's tribal culture. The killing of
such a prominent clan member could have triggered a bloodbath that would claim
200 lives, said the patriarch, Abdul-Rihman. But the Jmors, a well-educated
family of doctors and engineers, say they want the judicial process to hold
Salah's killer accountable.

"People say if they kill my brother, I have to kill one of them," Abdul-Jabbar
said. "But I believe in justice. I can't just go kill them. The United States
says it is the leader of justice in the world. Let us see that."

In Iraq, the U.S. military has redefined the rules of the road.

Military checkpoints -- elaborate affairs with mazes of concrete barriers,
razor wire and snipers' nests -- have been set up at intersections all over
Baghdad. Signs are posted in English and Arabic saying "Deadly Force
Authorized." Cars that approach too quickly risk being fired upon by troops who
shoot to kill.

At times, troops set up temporary checkpoints during raids or other military
operations. These can be even more dangerous for civilians because they can
appear on city streets without warning.

Military convoys, usually made up of three Humvees, patrol the streets. In each
vehicle, a gunner stands with his upper body partially exposed and ready to
operate a machine gun mounted on the roof. For troops, it is among the most
hazardous places to be in Iraq.

The military expects all vehicles to stay at least 100 yards from a convoy.
When cars come too close, troops signal them to move back, sometimes by waving
a little stop sign and sometimes by holding up a clenched fist.

Some Iraqis say the fist can be easy to miss. It also can be confusing for
motorists in Iraq, where the normal signal for stop is an upraised open hand,
as it is in the United States.

On the highway, traffic normally bunches up well behind the American Hummers.
But keeping the required distance from a convoy can be difficult when the
military vehicles unexpectedly change course or merge onto a highway.

The U.S. rules of engagement call for "escalation of force" when a vehicle
comes too close. Soldiers are trained to give hand and arm signals first, then
fire warning shots and ultimately shoot to kill, the senior U.S. official said.

"Nothing in the rules of engagement takes away the right of self-defense for
him and his buddies if the soldier feels threatened," he said. More than 1,770
U.S. troops have died in the Iraq theater since the March 2003 invasion.

Despite the rising number of civilian deaths, the official said
escalation-of-force incidents had fallen by half in the past four months. He
declined to provide specific figures.

According to one European diplomat, the American military's emphasis on
protecting its troops has made U.S. soldiers more likely to kill and injure
civilians than are other members of the coalition, such as the British, who are
stationed in southern Iraq.

"The U.S. has force protection as their No. 1 priority," said the diplomat, who
asked not to be identified because his remarks did not have his government's
prior approval.

"The British have it as a priority, but not by any stretch the absolute
priority. I think that makes the U.S. soldiers more jumpy."

Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish member of the transitional National Assembly, said he
personally knew three people, including Salah Jmor, who had been shot and
killed by U.S. troops during traffic incidents. Of the other two, one was an
athlete, the other a doctor who had been called to her hospital to handle an
emergency.

"I understand American soldiers are nervous. It's very dangerous," said Othman,
who was a member of the U.S.-appointed Governing Council that helped run Iraq
after the invasion. "But the killings are undermining support for the U.S.
government. It has helped people who call themselves the opposition. It has
helped terrorism."

A recent case highlighted by the Iraqi government in its criticism of the U.S.
was the June 24 killing of Yasser Salihee, 30, an Iraqi special correspondent
for Knight-Ridder newspapers. Salihee, a physician, had taken a rare day off
and planned to take his wife and daughter swimming. He went to get gasoline and
was returning home at midmorning. By then, U.S. troops were conducting a
military operation in his neighborhood. It appears he did not see them until it
was too late.

The route he chose was not blocked off and there was no sign warning motorists
to halt, witnesses say. As he neared the scene of the military operation, a
U.S. Army sniper fired at his car. One bullet hit a tire. The other hit Salihee
in the forehead. That bullet also severed fingers on his right hand, indicating
he was holding up at least one of his hands at the time he was killed. U.S.
officials are investigating the shooting.

Salihee's widow, Raghad al Wazzan, said she accepted the American soldiers'
presence when they first arrived in Iraq because "they came and liberated us."
She sometimes helped them at the hospital where she works as a doctor. But not
anymore.

"Now, after they killed my husband, I hate them," she said. "I want to blow
them all up."

Times staff writers Borzou Daragahi and Raheem Salman in Baghdad and Paul
Richter in Washington and special correspondent Asmaa Waguih in Baghdad
contributed to this report.

Copyright + 2005, The Los Angeles Times

--- Msged/2 6.0.1
 * Origin: tncbbs.no-ip.com - Try the CROSSFIRE echo - all welcome (1:261/1000)