Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   19455/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3218
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13270
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32896
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2056
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33903
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24125
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22092
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 16373, 119 rader
Skriven 2005-11-30 19:29:06 av BOB SAKOWSKI (1:123/140)
Ärende: Truth 2 power
=====================
http://www.forward.com/main/printer-friendly.php?id=6936


Forward Forum
Costly Withdrawal Is the Price To Be Paid for a Foolish War
By Martin van Creveld
November 25, 2005

The number of American casualties in Iraq is now well more than 2,000, and
there is no end in sight. Some two-thirds of Americans, according to the
polls, believe the war to have been a mistake. And congressional elections
are just around the corner.

What had to come, has come. The question is no longer if American forces
will be withdrawn, but how soon — and at what cost. In this respect, as in
so many others, the obvious parallel to Iraq is Vietnam.

Confronted by a demoralized army on the battlefield and by growing
opposition at home, in 1969 the Nixon administration started withdrawing
most of its troops in order to facilitate what it called the
"Vietnamization" of the country. The rest of America's forces were pulled
out after Secretary of State Henry Kissinger negotiated a "peace
settlement" with Hanoi. As the troops withdrew, they left most of their
equipment to the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam — which just two
years later, after the fall of Saigon, lost all of it to the communists.

Clearly this is not a pleasant model to follow, but no other alternative
appears in sight.

Whereas North Vietnam at least had a government with which it was possible
to arrange a cease-fire, in Iraq the opponent consists of shadowy groups of
terrorists with no central organization or command authority. And whereas
in the early 1970s equipment was still relatively plentiful, today's armed
forces are the products of a technology-driven revolution in military
affairs. Whether that revolution has contributed to anything besides
America's national debt is open to debate. What is beyond question, though,
is that the new weapons are so few and so expensive that even the world's
largest and richest power can afford only to field a relative handful of
them.

Therefore, simply abandoning equipment or handing it over to the Iraqis, as
was done in Vietnam, is simply not an option. And even if it were, the new
Iraqi army is by all accounts much weaker, less skilled, less cohesive and
less loyal to its government than even the South Vietnamese army was. For
all intents and purposes, Washington might just as well hand over its
weapons directly to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Clearly, then, the thing to do is to forget about face-saving and conduct a
classic withdrawal.

Handing over their bases or demolishing them if necessary, American forces
will have to fall back on Baghdad. From Baghdad they will have to make
their way to the southern port city of Basra, and from there back to
Kuwait, where the whole misguided adventure began. When Prime Minister Ehud
Barak pulled Israel out of Lebanon in 2000, the military was able to carry
out the operation in a single night without incurring any casualties. That,
however, is not how things will happen in Iraq.

Not only are American forces perhaps 30 times larger, but so is the country
they have to traverse. A withdrawal probably will require several months
and incur a sizable number of casualties. As the pullout proceeds, Iraq
almost certainly will sink into an all-out civil war from which it will
take the country a long time to emerge — if, indeed, it can do so at all.
All this is inevitable and will take place whether George W. Bush, Dick
Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice like it or not.

Having been thoroughly devastated by two wars with the United States and a
decade of economic sanctions, decades will pass before Iraq can endanger
its neighbors again. Yet a complete American withdrawal is not an option;
the region, with its vast oil reserves, is simply too important for that. A
continued military presence, made up of air, sea and a moderate number of
ground forces, will be needed.

First and foremost, such a presence will be needed to counter Iran, which
for two decades now has seen the United States as "the Great Satan." Tehran
is certain to emerge as the biggest winner from the war — a winner that in
the not too distant future is likely to add nuclear warheads to the
missiles it already has. In the past, Tehran has often threatened the Gulf
States. Now that Iraq is gone, it is hard to see how anybody except the
United States can keep the Gulf States, and their oil, out of the mullahs'
clutches.

A continued American military presence will be needed also, because a
divided, chaotic, government-less Iraq is very likely to become a hornets'
nest. From it, a hundred mini-Zarqawis will spread all over the Middle
East, conducting acts of sabotage and seeking to overthrow governments in
Allah's name.

The Gulf States apart, the most vulnerable country is Jordan, as evidenced
by the recent attacks in Amman. However, Turkey, Egypt and, to a lesser
extent, Israel are also likely to feel the impact. Some of these countries,
Jordan in particular, are going to require American assistance.

Maintaining an American security presence in the region, not to mention
withdrawing forces from Iraq, will involve many complicated problems,
military as well as political. Such an endeavor, one would hope, will be
handled by a team different from — and more competent than — the one
presently in charge of the White House and Pentagon.

For misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war
since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost
them, Bush deserves to be impeached and, once he has been removed from
office, put on trial along with the rest of the president's men. If
convicted, they'll have plenty of time to mull over their sins.

Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew
University, is author of "Transformation of War" (Free Press, 1991). He is
the only non-American author on the U.S. Army's required reading list for
officers.


Copyright 2005 © The Forward

[clip]

From van Creveld's mouth to God's ear.

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)