Text 16624, 264 rader
Skriven 2005-12-17 17:51:03 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 16618 av JOHNJWILSON (1:123/140)
Ärende: Truth or consequences
=============================
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:14:20 -0500, JOHNJWILSON -> TIM RICHARDSON wrote:


 JJ>>> If apologies are in order for being a fake a liar and a dumb ass,
 JJ>>> you must lead a life of contrition...



 ->> and read some of his *biography*.

 J> And cherry-picked. And you think this justifies calling Murtha
 J> a liar and a fake and a dumb ass.

No justification is necessary. This *IS* a free country is it not? The 1st
Amendment protects free speech, does it not?


 ->> Just for the record.......lets list a few things here;



 ->> The biography blurp starts out by stating that Murtha has had a long and
 ->> distinguished career in the U.S. Marine Corp, claiming 37 years in the
 J> Corp.

 J> Which though true  you wish to belittle by:

 ->> It then goes on to state that he has served over thirty years in the
 J> House of
 ->> Representatives.

 J> Many I think in the Armed Services committee keeping a pretty close
 J> tab on the pentagon and the military in general...
 J> service in the reserves...counts...pretty much respected
 J> by colleges in congress...

So, service in the reserves counts but service in the Texas Air National
Guard is dodging the draft? Interesting.


 ->> Adding the two together......thats 67 years total. Lets look at it a
 J> little
 ->> closer;

 J> (SDigh) OK...


 ->> He joined the Marines out of college in 1952. (Gee, that only accounts
 J> for 53
 ->> of those 67 years. There's still about 14 years floatin' around out
 J> there,
 ->> somewhere.)

 J> OK...

 ->> He was awarded (in basic, no less) the American Spirit Honor Medal
 J> (whatever
 ->> the hell `that' is).

 J> Have no idea. Douby that it indicated a failing grade :-)


 ->> He became a drill instructor and was accepted to Officer Candidate
 J> School (Ah
 ->> so....a `ninety-day wonder').

 J> Frill instructors are pretty shasrp, hard working, and generally have
 J> leadershipo qualities those who resally excel
 J> went when needed, to OCS.
 J> That three months of inttensxive training. A lot of 'em don't make it...

Very few don't make it through OCS.


 ->> In 1959 he became a Company Commander in a *Marine Reserve Unit*. (If
 J> you are
 ->> in a *Reserve Unit*.....you are *not* active duty.)

 J> ok...


 ->> He volunteered for Vietnam in 1966\67 (thats *one* year)

 J> That's a long time.

Longer than Gore or Kerry.

 J> , won a Bronze Star
 ->> with Combat `V', two Purple Hearts

 J> This dumb'ass, fake did that did he?

Yes, he did. Intelligence isn't a prerequisite for a Bronze Star or Purple
Hearts. Being awarded such does not make one smart.

 J> , and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry
 ->> (which were passed out by Vietnamese generals like confetti).

 J> Perhaps so. I have no idea. I wonder if you know this.

The person you replied to is a vietnam vet.


 ->> He's been in Congress since 1974. (And of course, the Marine Reserve)

 J> as stated servicving in the armed services committee.
 J> At a lele some people though was commendable,...and promotable.

 ->> His bio also claims he has "first-hand knowledge" of military affairs.

 J> After that time in Congress and with his ties made and recognized
 J> (and which caused Bush to become furious at militart critisism of the
 J> Commander-in-chief...)

When did bush get furious at military critisism? Military officers are not
allowed to make political commentary.


 ->> Well......I suppose a person who's been in a war would have "first-hand
 ->> knowledge" of military affairs. But I wonder if I wouldn't have made
 J> just as
 ->> good a "military adviser to presidents" as he...

 J> Wonder not. :-)

Why?

 J> . After all........I was in the
 ->> same war as he was.

 J> Yeah, I know you were kidding. Bad point recognized. :-)

How do you know he is kidding? He *WAS* in the same war as Murtha, so were
John Hull,  Vern Humphry (as a company commander), and a few others in
here. Why should people listen to murtha and not Tim, Vern,john, or anyone
else who is a Vietnam vet?

 J> =================================================================


 ->> But, what I really wanted to address here was your deliberate personal
 J> slam at
 ->> me.........

 J> More a defense of Murtha. I care very little about your opinions.

Then, why should you care anymore about Murtha's opinions?

 ->> Not trying to detract from Murtha's military service...

 J> Oh, NO. :-)


 J> ...I have to point out
 ->> that I have a big problem with someone claiming "a long and
 J> distinguished 37
 ->> year career in the US Marine Corp"........when their actual *active
 J> duty* time
 ->> was really only around 9 years (counting the year he was in Vietnam),
 J> giving
 ->> one the impression that he'd been on active duty that long.

 J> That "V" on his medal means something.

No one said it didn't. There are people in this echo who received the same
thing.

 J> To cll him a liar, to impune and belittle his service
 J> to his country suffices to confirm my scornful reply.

Who cares about your opinion?

 ->> Nothing he stated in his speech, and then in response to the
 J> Congresswoman's
 ->> remarks, would indicate that the years he spent *in the Corp* were
 J> actually
 ->> mostly spent in the *reserve*, and the rank *colonel* he holds is
 J> actually
 ->> more of a `courtesy' to him by the Reserve, than real.

 J> Why that courtesy do you suppose. Recognition that his service in congress
 J> was meaningful to the armed forces?

Only meaningful in that he voted for bills beneficial to the military.


 ->> It looks nice on his resume, but has little or no basis in reality.

 J> His medals are all the resume I need to refute your immeiate above.

So, you are impressed with medals? I can buy them by the handful down the
road at the local military surplus store.

 J> His speech, which arouses the administrations ire
 J> is what was important. The Reality will be recorded by historians,
 J> I'll not depend on your judgment.

No one will depend on yours, either.




 ->> He's actually `faking' a lot, here; giving people the impression that he
 J> was a
 ->> `retired Marine Colonel' with a long and distinguished career in the
 J> Marine
 ->> Corp, who'd just been slammed by some upstart, mouthy republican.

 J> Exactly so.



 ->> The plain truth is, given Murtha's *claim* of "long and distinguished
 J> career"
 ->> in the Marines...

 J> I wondxer who you are quoting. Him? Really? He used those words?
 J> I know many others have...

many others who want to inflate his importance.

 J> ....its difficult to meld his `cut and run' attitude with
 ->> the Esprit de Corp of the United States Marine Corp.

 J> At least you now address the heart of the matter.
 J> You are not likely to take his opinions serioously
 J> giveen your assessment of his career.

why should ANYONE take his opinions seriously? You take it serious only
because it fits with your own opinion.

 J> 'cut and run' are not his words not proposed in his speech,
 J> and it's complex and involves oner time, redeployment...et cetera.

His first comments were that we should pull the troops out immediately. He
then sponsored a bill that would call for a time frame for pulling out the
troops. He then voted against his own bill. Why should anyone believe him
or take his opinions serious?

 J> 'Cut and run' is a kill the messenger ploy.

Not at all.

 J> You cloud the issue by attacking the man.

Really? So, pointing out that Murtha isn't who he and his supporters claim
is "clouding the issue?"

 J> On the whole I think my assessment of you is more correct than your's
 J> of him: The God's will decide, my consciousce is clear.

Your assessment of others in fido has no bearing on reality.

 ->> So your low-ball comment to me is out of place.


 ->> Not a `surprise'.....just `out of place'.

BTW, do something about the lousy formatting of your mail reader.

Ed

--- 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
 * Origin: Veritas vos Leberabit! (1:123/789.0)