Text 19570, 178 rader
Skriven 2006-05-04 13:40:00 av JIM HOLSONBACK (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av JOHNJWILSON
Ärende: And ANOTHER one!
========================
-=> JOHNJWILSON wrote to JIM HOLSONBACK <=-

<cut>
 -> It is right to appreciate his contributions in those areas.  On the
 -> other hand, many of his political positions are very controversial.  He
 -> is one of the darlings of the anti-US left.

 JO> Probably so but inaccuratly -- he's been sounding off long before
 JO> Bush..

AFAICT he has been pretty consistently anti-US as far as foreign policy,
and is coming at things from so far to the left that he criticizes
democrat administrations as well.

 JO> Anti-US? There are some who think being 'left' IS anti-US.

Well, I didn't say that _all_ the left are anti-US, but I will say that
a _lot_ of those on the left are - - including some of the leftists
right here in Fido-land.  We see some who would otherwise nominally be
pro-US whose overarching hatred of GWB leads them to wish that the
foreign policy of the  US will fail, just so that GWB can be blamed.
This is the mindset of those from whom we are hearing the calls for
trials in den Haag for 'war crimes', and for impeachment.

In ordinary times, ordinary folks would not be howling for the trial and
imprisoment or impeachment of a president whose foreign policy has
liberated 60 million or so from oppressive regimes, and encouraged them
through writing their own constitutions and electing their own leaders.

 -> Perhaps you haven't read enough of his books where he gets into his
 -> political views.   The main Wikipedia article has him as a
 -> self-described libertarian socialist...

 JO> So (I've heard) is (was) John Kenneth Galbraith...

- who died over the weekend at the ripe old age of 97.
Pie Jesu Qui tolis peccata mundi Dona eis requiem. Requiem aeternam dona
eis Domine.

 JO> Wish I knew what the hell a libertarian socialist is. :-)

Heck, I gave you the short form. You could always check out the
Wikipedia article on it.

 JO> Hell, I don't know what Democrat and Republican means any more...

AFAICT being a demo means being united by a sense of shared victimhood
and being obsessed with revenge, being Desparately desirous of regaining
political power, and willing to do or say most _anything_ in order to
advance that goal.  Being a repub means being rich and greedy, always
seeking financial gain at the expense of all the ordinary workingfolks,
and being the locus of all extant government corruption. (Or so we hear)


 JO> My family was firmly in favour of Landon, Wilkie and Dewey...

You've come a long way, baby.

 JO> I voted for Eishenhower, Nixon, and Reagen  passed  on Bush I & II...
 JO> ...thinking about writing in Bill Mahr next time...

The one whose low-ratings show was cancelled after he accused the US
military of being cowards?  _That_ Bill Maher?  You think Son of Otto
will be posting a MediaMatters hatchet job on him anytime soon?

<  >
 JO> I was gonna vote for Godot but I'm afraid that'll be a long wait...
 JO> (boooo)

ditto

 -> , and a sympathizer of
 -> anarcho-syndacalism (he is a member of the IWW).

 JO> Is that still alive? In the thirties I remember IWW being refered
 JO> to as I Won't Work

Below is the short def. of libertarian socialist, which you mangled.

 -> abolition of the State and of private control over the means of
 -> production, considering both of these as unnecessary and harmful
 -> institutions.

 JO> Let me give this about ten seconds thought. OK...
 JO> The state has a purpose in instituting law and order...against personal
 JO> liberty...so I suppose there are sincere anarchists about...
Br'er Chirnside comes to mind, though I bet he would dispute being so
labeled.

 JO> Corporate control of the means of production is not exactly
 JO> worker-friendly ...but hey, a mixed economy is what we
 JO> got...argument is about the mix...an enduring argument. Down
 JO> with the capitalist bosses! Down with Unions!
 JO> Yeach.

"Corporate control" isn't worker-friendly?  This is class struggle
nonsense.  Can you name a company which has done well over the long
term that has the attitude that its employees are its worst enemies as
opposed to its most valuable asset? OTOH, I've more often seen employees
who take the attitude that 'the company is my enemy.'  I think a good
idea that _all_ workers own some stock - maybe thru their company 401-K
plan. The company my wife last worked for paid the company contrib. to
the 401-K in company stock. In general not a good idea to have too  much
of your retirement savings in stock of the company you work for, but the
combo if wishing that both you _and_ the company you work for to do well
financially is a good thing vice the 'us' vs. 'them' attitude you are
pointing to.

 JO> I don't believe this describes Chomsky. He just takes after the pretty
 JO> weird foreign relations policies of the U.S. ..right AND left.
 JO> The right being in power, his currect direction may be a sop to the
 JO> left...but wait until they get into power. (In maybe thirty years :-)

Hey, unless the wiki article is incorrect, this 'libertarian socialist'
thing is the way that Chomsky describes _himself_, whether you believe
him and them or not.

 -> For anarcho-syndacalism...

 JO> Whew! For Whaaat?

 -> , wiki says that the view is of labor unions as a
 -> potential force for revolutionary social change, replacing capitalism
 -> and the state with a new society democratically self-managed by workers.

 JO> Utopia! (which is derived as you know from the Greek: The no-where
 JO> state...)

 JO> ...but as a vehicle for social change, sure. The Haymarket affair.

So you think throwing a bomb at the police is an OK thing, just as long
as the bomb-thrower has a positive social change in mind?  'Hey, I think
I'll make and take a bomb, just in case the police tell us to disperse.'
And you say "sure" to this?

I'll wager you'd not extend the same attitude of approval toward a
person who thought it would be a vehicle for positive social change to
lob a bomb at an abortion clinic. What's his name - - Rudolph?

 JO> 'democraticly self-managed by workers' :-)
 JO> ...for about twenty minutes, until a Hoffa is 'elected'. :-)

Seems like if 'the workers' had such a better way to run an enterprise,
they could pool their resources and start or buy and run their own
companies.  I'll bet GM would cut them a good deal on Delphi right about
now. [;-D.

 -> Shall we all join hands and sing "Solidarity Forever?"

 JO> Solidarity is just fine
 JO> As long of course as I get mine

It's a favorite from the IWW's little red songbook.  Sung to the tune
of the Battle Hymn of the Republic,  BIR each verse ends with "the union
makes us strong."


 JO> I love political philosophy...let's outlaw greed. And being impolite.
 JO> And (the big one) let's everybody SHARE...

A new approach being aired among liberals -  diminish the demands for
the benefits being sought by their symbiont special interest groups, and
appeal for action to be taken 'for the common good.'


 JO> ...you first :-)

After you.  What would you share/trade if I could smuggle you a jug of
$2.69 a gallon gas? A Cuban cigar?  A cheap jug of Canadian Mist?

 JO> Cheers!

up your gesundheit as well :-)

- - - JimH.
 
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