Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   24853/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3250
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13300
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33431
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33946
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41708
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13615
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16075
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 20545, 241 rader
Skriven 2006-05-30 10:38:12 av John Hull (1:123/789.0)
     Kommentar till en text av Alan Hess
Ärende: religious strife in Iraq?
=================================
Do you people EVER listen to what the soldiers coming home from Iraq have to
say?  Do you ever listen to anybody but the damn liberal press?

Alan Hess -> all wrote:
 AH> If this is accurate (especially if it isn't just happening in Baghdad),
 AH> this does not bode well toward developing a unified country in Iraq.
 AH> When people fear their neighbors solely due to their respective
 AH> ethnicities, that's a serious problem.  Perhaps a three atate solution
 AH> (either three totally independent states, or three stats under a federal
 AH> government) really is the only answer?
 AH> ********

 AH> washingtonpost.com

 AH> Iraq Is the Republic of Fear

 AH> By Nir Rosen
 AH> Sunday, May 28, 2006; B01

 AH> Every morning the streets of Baghdad are littered with dozens of bodies,
 AH> bruised, torn, mutilated, executed only because they are Sunni or
 AH> because they are Shiite. Power drills are an especially popular torture
 AH> device.

 AH> I have spent nearly two of the three years since Baghdad fell in Iraq.
 AH> On my last trip, a few weeks back, I flew out of the city overcome with
 AH> fatalism. Over the course of six weeks, I worked with three different
 AH> drivers; at various times each had to take a day off because a neighbor
 AH> or relative had been killed. One morning 14 bodies were found, all with
 AH> ID cards in their front pockets, all called Omar. Omar is a Sunni name.
 AH> In Baghdad these days, nobody is more insecure than men called Omar. On
 AH> another day a group of bodies was found with hands folded on their
 AH> abdomens, right hand over left, the way Sunnis pray. It was a message.
 AH> These days many Sunnis are obtaining false papers with neutral names.
 AH> Sunni militias are retaliating, stopping buses and demanding the jinsiya
 AH> , or ID cards, of all passengers. Individuals belonging to Shiite tribes
 AH> are executed.

 AH> Under the reign of Saddam Hussein, dissidents called Iraq "the republic
 AH> of fear" and hoped it would end when Hussein was toppled. But the war,
 AH> it turns out, has spread the fear democratically. Now the terror is not
 AH> merely from the regime, or from U.S. troops, but from everybody,
 AH> everywhere.

 AH> At first, the dominant presence of the U.S. military -- with its
 AH> towering vehicles rumbling through Baghdad's streets and its soldiers
 AH> like giants with their vests and helmets and weapons -- seemed
 AH> overwhelming. The Occupation could be felt at all times. Now in Baghdad,
 AH> you can go days without seeing American soldiers. Instead, it feels as
 AH> if Iraqis are occupying Iraq, their masked militiamen blasting through
 AH> traffic in anonymous security vehicles, shooting into the air, angrily
 AH> shouting orders on loudspeakers, pointing their Kalashnikovs at passersby.

 AH> Today, the Americans are just one more militia lost in the anarchy.
 AH> They, too, are killing Iraqis.

 AH> Last fall I visited the home of a Sunni man called Sabah in the western
 AH> Baghdad suburb of Radwaniya, where the Sunni resistance had long had a
 AH> presence, and where a U.S. soldier had recently been killed. On Friday
 AH> night a few days before I came, his family told me, American soldiers
 AH> surrounded the home where Sabah lived with his brothers, Walid and
 AH> Hussein, and their families and broke down the door. The women and
 AH> children were herded outside, walking past Sabah, whose nose was broken,
 AH> and Walid, who had the barrel of a soldier's machine gun in his mouth.
 AH> The soldiers beat the men with rifle butts, while the Shiite Iraqi
 AH> translator accompanying the troops exhorted the Americans to execute the
 AH> Sunnis.

 AH> As the terrified family waited outside, they heard three shots from
 AH> inside. It then sounded to them as though there was a scuffle inside,
 AH> with the soldiers shouting at each other. Thirty minutes later the
 AH> translator emerged with a picture of Sabah. "Who is Sabah's wife?" he
 AH> asked. "Your husband was killed by the Americans, and he deserved to
 AH> die," he told her. At that he tore the picture before her face.

 AH> Walid was then taken away, and inside the house the family found Sabah
 AH> dead. His bloody shirt showed three bullet holes that went through his
 AH> chest; two of the bullets had come out of his back and lodged in the
 AH> wall behind him. Three U.S.-made bullet casings were on the floor. Sofas
 AH> and beds had been overturned and torn apart; tables, closets, vases of
 AH> plastic flowers, all were broken and tossed around. Even the cars had
 AH> been destroyed. Photographs of Sabah had been torn up and his ID card
 AH> confiscated. One photograph remained on his wife's bureau: Sabah
 AH> standing proudly in front of his Mercedes.

 AH> I later asked Hussein if they wanted revenge. "We are Muslim, praise
 AH> God," he said, "and we do not want revenge. He was innocent and he was
 AH> killed, so he is a martyr."

 AH> Across town, U.S. troops had also raided the Mustapha Huseiniya, a
 AH> Shiite place of worship in the Ur neighborhood. The Huseiniya, similar
 AH> to a mosque, belonged to the nationalistic and anti-occupation Moqtada
 AH> al-Sadr movement, and in front of its short tower were immense signs
 AH> with images of the movement's important clerics. The Sadr militia, known
 AH> as the Army of the Mahdi, had been using the Huseiniya as a base for
 AH> counterinsurgency operations. Mahdi militiamen kidnapped Sunnis
 AH> suspected of supporting the insurgency, tortured them until they
 AH> confessed on video, and then executed them.

 AH> When the Americans raided the Huseiniya, they brought Iraqi troops with
 AH> them. They killed not only Mahdi fighters but also innocent Shiite
 AH> bystanders, including a young journalist I knew named Kamal Anbar, in
 AH> what witnesses described to me as summary executions. Although neighbors
 AH> blamed the U.S. troops, Iraqi troops were so laden with gear, flak
 AH> jackets and helmets provided by the Americans, they were often
 AH> indistinguishable.

 AH> When I visited the next morning, the Huseiniya's floors, walls and
 AH> ceilings were stained with blood; pieces of brain lay in caked red
 AH> puddles. Just as Shiites cheered when the Americans hit Sunni targets,
 AH> Sunni supporters of the insurgency greeted news of the U.S. raid with
 AH> satisfaction.

 AH> The Mahdi militiamen were already back in force that morning, blocking
 AH> off the roads and searching all who approached, wielding Iraqi
 AH> police-issue Glock pistols and carrying Iraqi police-issue handcuffs. In
 AH> Baghdad and most of Iraq, the police are the Mahdi Army and the Mahdi
 AH> Army is the police. The same holds for the actual Iraqi army, posted
 AH> throughout the country.

 AH> The sectarian tensions have overtaken far more than Iraq's security
 AH> forces and its streets. Militias now routinely enter hospitals to hunt
 AH> down or arrest those who have survived their raids. And many Iraqi
 AH> government ministries are now filled with the banners and slogans of
 AH> Shiite religious groups, which now exert total control over these key
 AH> agencies. If you are not with them, you are gone.

 AH> For instance, in the negotiations between parties after the January 2005
 AH> elections, Sadr loyalists gained control over the ministries of health
 AH> and transportation and immediately began cleansing them of Sunnis and
 AH> Shiites not aligned with Sadr. The process was officially known by the
 AH> Sadrists as "cleansing the ministry of Saddamists." Indeed, some
 AH> government offices now do not accept Sunnis as employees at all.

 AH> Based on my visits to the ministries, it is clear that an apartheid
 AH> process began after the Shiites' electoral success. In the Ministry of
 AH> Health, you see pictures of Moqtada al-Sadr and his father everywhere.
 AH> Traditional Shiite music reverberates throughout the hallways. Doctors
 AH> and ministry staffers refer to the minister of health as imami, or "my
 AH> imam," as though he were a cleric. I also saw walls adorned with Shiite
 AH> posters -- including ones touting Sadr -- in the Ministry of
 AH> Transportation. Sunni staffers have been pushed out of both ministries,
 AH> while the Ministry of Interior is under the control of another Shiite
 AH> movement, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (its
 AH> name alone a sufficient statement of its intentions).

 AH> Shiites with no apparent qualifications have filled the ranks. In one
 AH> case in the transportation ministry, a Sunni chief engineer was fired
 AH> and replaced with an unqualified Shiite who wore a cleric's turban to
 AH> work. In all cases, this has led to a stark drop in efficiency, with the
 AH> health and transportation ministries barely functioning, and the
 AH> interior ministry operating much like an anti-Sunni death squad, with
 AH> secret prisons uncovered last November, and people disappearing after
 AH> raids by shadowy government security units operating at night.

 AH> Even shared opposition to the Occupation couldn't unite Iraq's Sunnis
 AH> and Shiites, and perhaps that was inevitable given their bitter history
 AH> of mutual hostility. Instead, as the fighting against the Americans
 AH> intensified, tensions between Sunni and Shiite began to grow, eventually
 AH> setting off the vicious sectarian cleansing that is Iraq today.

 AH> During the first battle of Fallujah, in the spring of 2004, Sunni
 AH> insurgents fought alongside some Shiite forces against the Americans; by
 AH> that fall, the Sunnis waged their resistance alone in Fallujah, and they
 AH> resented the Shiites' indifference.

 AH> But by that time, Shiite frustration with Sunnis for harboring Abu Musab
 AH> al-Zarqawi, the bloodthirsty head of al-Qaeda in Iraq, led some to feel
 AH> that the Fallujans were getting what they deserved. The cycle of
 AH> violence escalated from there. When Sunni refugees from Fallujah settled
 AH> in west Baghdad's Sunni strongholds such as Ghazaliya, al-Amriya and
 AH> Khadhra, the first Shiiite families began to get threats to leave. In
 AH> Amriya, Shiites who ignored the threats had their homes attacked or
 AH> their men murdered by Sunni militias.

 AH> This is when sectarian cleansing truly began. Sunni refugees in Amriya
 AH> seized homes vacated by Shiites. These operations were conducted by
 AH> insurgents as well as relatives of the refugees. Soon such cleansing had
 AH> become widespread and commonplace, both out of vengeance and out of its
 AH> own cruel logic; both sides took part. There was no space left in Iraq
 AH> for nonsectarian voices. Sunnis and Shiites alike were pushed into the
 AH> arms of their respective militias, often joining out of self-defense.
 AH> Shiites obtained lists of the Baath party cadres that were the
 AH> foundation of Hussein's regime and began systematically assassinating
 AH> Sunnis who had belonged. Sunni militias that had fought the American
 AH> occupier became Sunni militias protecting Sunni territory from Shiite
 AH> incursions and retaliating in Shiite areas. The insurgency became
 AH> secondary as resistance moved to self-defense. In the Shiite-dominated
 AH> south, meanwhile, Shiite militias battled each other and the British
 AH> forces.

 AH> In November I asked a close Shiite friend if -- considering all this
 AH> violence, crime and radicalism in Iraq -- life had not been better under
 AH> Hussein.

 AH> "No," he said definitively. "They could level all of Baghdad and it
 AH> would still be better than Saddam. At least we have hope."

 AH> A few weeks later, though, he e-mailed me in despair: "A civil war will
 AH> happen I'm sure of it . . . you can't be comfortable talking with a man
 AH> until you know if he was Shia or Sunni, . . . Politicians don't trust
 AH> each other, People don't trust each other. [There is] seeking revenge,
 AH> weak government, separate regions for the opponents . . . We have a
 AH> civil war here; it is only a matter of time, and some peppers to provoke
 AH> it."

 AH> The time came on Feb. 22, when the Golden Mosque of the Shiites in
 AH> Samarra was blown up. More than 1,000 Sunnis were killed in retribution,
 AH> and then the Shiite-controlled interior ministry prevented an accurate
 AH> body count from being released. Attacks on mosques, mostly Sunni ones,
 AH> increased. Officially, Moqtada al-Sadr opposed attacks on Sunnis, but he
 AH> unleashed his fighters on them after the bombing.

 AH> Sectarian and ethnic cleansing has since continued apace, as mixed
 AH> neighborhoods are "purified." In Amriya, dead bodies are being found on
 AH> the main street at a rate of three or five or seven a day. People are
 AH> afraid to approach the bodies, or call for an ambulance or the police,
 AH> for fear that they, too, will be found dead the following day. In Abu
 AH> Ghraib, Dora, Amriya and other once-diverse neighborhoods, Shiites are
 AH> being forced to leave. In Maalif and Shaab, Sunnis are being targeted.

 AH> The world wonders if Iraq is on the brink of civil war, while Iraqis
 AH> fear calling it one, knowing the fate such a description would portend.
 AH> In truth, the civil war started long before Samarra and long before the
 AH> first uprisings. It started when U.S. troops arrived in Baghdad. It
 AH> began when Sunnis discovered what they had lost, and Shiites learned
 AH> what they had gained. And the worst is yet to come.

 AH> nirrosen@yahoo.com

 AH> Nir Rosen is a fellow at the New America Foundation and author of "In
 AH> the Belly of the Green Bird: The Triumph of the Martyrs in Iraq" (Free
 AH> Press).
 AH> + 2006 The Washington Post Company

 AH> --- Msged/2 6.0.1
 AH>  * Origin: tncbbs.no-ip.com - Try the CROSSFIRE echo - all welcome
 AH> (1:261/1000)

--- Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308)
 * Origin:  (1:123/789.0)