Text 24181, 164 rader
Skriven 2006-10-31 15:17:33 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 24176 av John Hull (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: Election
================
John Hull -> Gary Braswell wrote:
 JH> Gary Braswell -> Jeff Binkley wrote:
 GB>> Jeff Binkley -> Gary Braswell wrote:
 GB>>>>>>>> That is one process and not a new one. I don't happen to
 GB>>>>>> agree  with  JH> it.
 GB>>>>>>>> But why it is done makes the difference. I doubt the
 GB>>>> Democratic  JH>>> party is
 GB>>>>>>>> doing it because the terrorists have said lack of Republican
 GB>>>>>>>> voter turnout will help us win.

 JH>>>>>>> If the Democrat Party cared a damn about what it stood for,
 JH>>>>>>> knowing that the terrorists preferred it to the GOP, they
 JH>>>>>>> would change their platform.  That they don't says to me they
 JH>>>>>>> don't give a damn.

 GB>>>>>> How can you really know what the terrorists prefer? And of so,
 GB>>>>>> why would they vocalize it?

 JB>>>>> Two simple questions.

 JB>>>>> 1.  Do the terrorists want us to leave Iraq ?
 JB>>>>> 2.  Which party has the most members publicly talking about a
 JB>>>>> hasty withdraw ?

 GB>>>> I don't think the terrorists want us to leave Iraq. But if we do
 JH> they
 GB>>>> will claim victory. The same way Saddam did after the Gulf War.

 JB>>> That doesn't make any sense.  If they don't want us to leave then why
 JB>>> are they fighting us ?

 GB>> Its pretty obvious and simple. They want to kill us. They want to
 GB>> destroy us.

 GB>> Where else in the world can they get at us so easily? Kill us in
 JH> numbers
 GB>> they have not been able to since 9/11 and do it on a daily basis and
 GB>> show the US is not invulnerable on international TV.

 GB>> Its a bonanza from their point of view.

 JH> Oh please.  The ONLY reason they are getting away with it in Iraq is
 JH> that we want everybody to be our buddy and help us.  Do you really think
 JH> if Bush said to the military "You've got six months to finish it - do
 JH> whatever it takes to do it" that we couldn't do that?  The terrorists
 JH> are getting away with murder because we allow them to for diplomatic
 JH> expediency.


I have no doubt if we simply killed everyone in Iraq, the problem would be
over.

But fortunately,we are the good guys who don't do those kinds of things.

You paint a poor picture of Bush if he does allow US troops to die for
diplomatic expediency.

I don't think any President would do that.

 GB>>>> Ready made and available US targets, not to mention a huge
 JH> recruiting
 GB>>>> situation makes our stay there a welcome one to the hierarchy of
 GB>>>> terror outfits.

 JB>>> That makes no sense.  They don't need us there to stir up hatred of
 GB>> the

 GB>> It makes plenty of sense.

 GB>> They may not need us there to stir hatred of the US, but as long as we
 GB>> are there, the hatred grows and spreads in an order of magnitude and
 GB>> more importantly, since they can paint us as invaders, conquerors they
 GB>> can get more people to actually come in and fight.

 JB>>> US.  Aside from bragging to a buddy, what value is killing a US
 GB>> soldier
 JB>>> in Iraq to a terrorist ?  Terrorists, most of all, want major
 GB>> publicity.
 JB>>> Attacking a  major US asset will give them that visibility.
 JH> Killing a
 JB>>> few US soldiers won't.

 GB>> Without a doubt, killing US troops is not as sexy to terrorists as
 GB>> blowing something up on US soil.

 GB>> But if its all you have, you make the best out of it and they are.

 GB>>>> I think the Bath remnants want is to leave. I think the religious
 GB>>>> factions want us to leave and I think a growing number of Iraqis
 JH> want
 GB>>>> us to leave.

 GB>>>> Bin Laden wanted us out of the Holy Lands. We are now, but he is
 GB>>>> still after us.

 JB>>> The last time I checked, Bin Laden was still considered to be the
 GB>> leader
 JB>>> of Al Qaeda.

 GB>> I agree. So what is your point?


 GB>>>> They want us now out of the Middle East completely and that will not
 GB>>>> even be enough if we did leave.

 GB>>>> Its gone beyond all that now.

 JB>>> If they never wanted us dead, they wouldn't have attacked us in the
 JB>>> first place.  You're joining the crowd that makes this all the
 JH> fault of
 JB>>> the US.  Sad to see.

 GB>> You lost me here.

 GB>> I never said they did not want us dead. Various factions have attacked
 GB>> us for many reasons. We support Israel, we intervene in the Middle
 JH> East,
 GB>> we exist...

 GB>> I don't blame the US. I don't know where you got that from.


 JB>>> I look at it as simply as I would rather kill a terrorist in Baghdad
 JB>>> than in downtown New York.

 GB>> Same here, but killing them anywhere is fine by me.

 GB>> You have to understand Jeff, they feel the same about the US. They
 JH> would
 GB>> rather kill many in the US in one fell swoop, but if they can't,
 JH> what we
 GB>> have in Iraq will do fine for now.

 JH> They are not targeting the US exclusively.  Their primary targets, in
 JH> fact, are fellow Iraqis who happen to be of some other sect.

I never said they target the US exclusively. Sure they will hit softer targets
too.


 GB>> Until the Iraqis are able to fight for their own country, we are in a
 GB>> war of attrition in Iraq. Sure we kill more of them. But they don't
 JH> care.

 GB>> Its my belief we are going to have to be in Iraq for 20 years or
 JH> more if
 GB>> we want to do the job right.

 GB>> We are going to have to have an entire generation grow up that knows
 GB>> nothing else but democracy and freedom. They will fight and die for
 JH> it.
 GB>> Now we have a largely tribal and split religious culture used to
 JH> living
 GB>> in horrible circumstances with massive corruption that has been the
 GB>> fabric of their country for decades.

 JH> The problem is religious.  Break the stranglehold of Islam on those
 JH> people and you will see democracy and individual freedom explode like a
 JH> field of spring flowers.

Its tribal too.

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