Text 24283, 237 rader
Skriven 2006-11-02 01:26:15 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 24273 av Jeff Binkley (1:226/600)
Ärende: Election
================
Jeff Binkley -> Gary Braswell wrote:
 JH>>>>>>> If the Democrat Party cared a damn about what it stood for,
 JH>>>>>>> knowing that the terrorists preferred it to the GOP, they
 JH>>>>>>> would change their platform.  That they don't says to me
 JH>>>>>>> they don't give a damn.

 GB>>>>>> How can you really know what the terrorists prefer? And of
 GB>>>>>> so, why would they vocalize it?

 JB>>>>> Two simple questions.

 JB>>>>> 1.  Do the terrorists want us to leave Iraq ?
 JB>>>>> 2.  Which party has the most members publicly talking about a
 JB>>>>> hasty withdraw ?

 GB>>>> I don't think the terrorists want us to leave Iraq. But if we
 GB>>>> do they will claim victory. The same way Saddam did after the
 GB>>>> Gulf War.

 JB>>> That doesn't make any sense.  If they don't want us to leave
 JB>>> then why are they fighting us ?

 GB>> Its pretty obvious and simple. They want to kill us. They want to
 GB>> destroy us.

 GB>> Where else in the world can they get at us so easily? Kill us in
 GB>> numbers they have not been able to since 9/11 and do it on a daily
 GB>> basis and show the US is not invulnerable on international TV.

 GB>> Its a bonanza from their point of view.

 JB> I see.  So they don't want us to leave and they see great terrorist
 JB> victories in killing a few US servicemen without it making much in the
 JB> way of news.  Got it.  That really doesn't fit the pattern of most
 JB> terrorists and most terrorists aren't real excited about taking on a
 JB> well armed military.

Of course they don't take on a well armed military in a out-in-the-open fight,
terrorists never do if they can avoid it for obvious reasons. But bombs,
sniping, etc. they do carry out and while the casualties are low compared to
other wars, it has an effect back home. Chaos, division, infighting, etc
hopefully making their enemy weaker. It also makes them big guys in the eyes of
the people who hate the US.



 GB>>>> Ready made and available US targets, not to mention a huge
 GB>>>> recruiting situation makes our stay there a welcome one to the
 GB>>>> hierarchy of terror outfits.

 JB>>> That makes no sense.  They don't need us there to stir up hatred
 GB>> of the

 GB>> It makes plenty of sense.

 GB>> They may not need us there to stir hatred of the US, but as long as
 GB>> we are there, the hatred grows and spreads in an order of magnitude
 GB>> and more importantly, since they can paint us as invaders, conquerors
 GB>> they can get more people to actually come in and fight.

 JB> You have bought into the propaganda of the left well.

Its not from the left.

You mean to tell me masses of the Arab world does not see us as invaders,
conquerors in Iraq? Our being there does not give the radicals fuel for the
fire?

Instead it makes them think we are liberators, calms them and makes them
welcome us as friends?

I am not saying we are conquerors, of course we are not. I am talking about
their perception through the dishonest propaganda of the terror brokers. That
leads to more hate and more people willing to join them and more jihaddis
willing to throw their lives away.

By saying this I am not justifying us leaving or not trying to win. Its just a
fact.

We must stay and we must win. Over time, I hope they will see as their dead
continue to rise and we go nowhere, the terror brokers will lose power and
influence by seeing despite their efforts and dead piling up, we are still
there.

The Japanese of WWII blamed us for them attacking us because we embargoed them.
They vilified us in their public as strangling them to death.

That is a fact. It does not mean I agree with their point.

They would not have been embargoed, nor would they have had such a huge need
for oil, etc. had they not been trying to establish The Greater Asian
Co-Prosperity Sphere at the point of a gun in China.

We got attacked for taking a moral stand against an evil regime.

We are being attacked in Iraq for much the same reasons.

To deny it because of a political fear of giving Democrats some disengenuous
purchase they can use to pound the Republicans with is wacked.

And I know Democrats have used that as a bludgeon. And a disengenuous one at
that.

But then denying reality just to refuse the Democrats some ammo, IMO, makes it
far worse for anyone with any common sense.

Any time you fight the enemy it gives them propaganda to use to help their
cause.

But fight you must.

Just because I am stating a fact does not mean I am learning from the left,
supporting them or agreeing with them in their disengenuous use of that fact.

I hope I have cleared that up.



 JB>>> US.  Aside from bragging to a buddy, what value is killing a US
 JB>>> soldier in Iraq to a terrorist ?  Terrorists, most of all, want
 JB>>> major publicity. Attacking a  major US asset will give them that
 JB>>> visibility.  Killing a few US soldiers won't.

 GB>> Without a doubt, killing US troops is not as sexy to terrorists as
 GB>> blowing something up on US soil.

 GB>> But if its all you have, you make the best out of it and they are.

 JB> It isn't all they have but it is all that they have accomplished under
 JB> Bush.

And we can thank God for that.


 GB>>>> I think the Bath remnants want is to leave. I think the
 GB>>>> religious factions want us to leave and I think a growing
 GB>>>> number of Iraqis want us to leave.

 GB>>>> Bin Laden wanted us out of the Holy Lands. We are now, but he
 GB>>>> is still after us.

 JB>>> The last time I checked, Bin Laden was still considered to be
 JB>>> the leader of Al Qaeda.

 GB>> I agree. So what is your point?

 JB> So on one hand you say that the terrorists want us to stay and on the
 JB> other, you say that the leader of Al Qaeda wants us to leave.

OBL claimed he became our enemy when we took up residence in Saudi Arabia. He
implied if we left, he would leave us alone.

Older terror outfits hit us they claimed because we supported Israel.

Still others wanted us out of the Mideast.

Now most want us out of the Mideast they claim.

Its gone beyond that, if really there was any truth to it in the first place.
If we packed up and left everywhere in the Mideast, they would still come after
us. They hate us for what we are and what we have. They always have really and
have used various claims of hurt to justify to the world their efforts against
us. It hate and revenge.




 GB>>>> They want us now out of the Middle East completely and that
 GB>>>> will not even be enough if we did leave.

 GB>>>> Its gone beyond all that now.

 JB>>> If they never wanted us dead, they wouldn't have attacked us in
 JB>>> the first place.  You're joining the crowd that makes this all
 JB>>> the fault of the US.  Sad to see.

 GB>> You lost me here.

 GB>> I never said they did not want us dead. Various factions have
 GB>> attacked us for many reasons. We support Israel, we intervene in the
 GB>> Middle East, we exist...

 GB>> I don't blame the US. I don't know where you got that from.


 JB>>> I look at it as simply as I would rather kill a terrorist in
 JB>>> Baghdad than in downtown New York.

 GB>> Same here, but killing them anywhere is fine by me.

 GB>> You have to understand Jeff, they feel the same about the US. They
 GB>> would rather kill many in the US in one fell swoop, but if they
 GB>> can't, what we have in Iraq will do fine for now.

 GB>> Until the Iraqis are able to fight for their own country, we are in a
 GB>> war of attrition in Iraq. Sure we kill more of them. But they don't
 GB>> care.

 JB> Right, the endless supply theory and wars never end.  They will fight
 JB> for their country or they will be killed and enslaved.  Given that
 JB> choice, they will fight.  Look at how many policeman have gotten killed
 JB> yet more keep signing up.  You forget that side of the equation.

I have not forgotten that hope. I don't think its with the police though. The
biggest disappointment is with the police over there. Joblessness is big over
there. Many show up for their 1st check and disappear. That check they can
survive for some time on. US units don't trust police, they keep their guns
trained on them.

The army is the hope there.



 GB>> Its my belief we are going to have to be in Iraq for 20 years or more
 GB>> if we want to do the job right.

 GB>> We are going to have to have an entire generation grow up that knows
 GB>> nothing else but democracy and freedom. They will fight and die for
 GB>> it. Now we have a largely tribal and split religious culture used to
 GB>> living in horrible circumstances with massive corruption that has
 GB>> been the fabric of their country for decades.

 JB> They have had 2,000 years of being conquered and tyranny.  Of course it
 JB> is going to take that long.  It took longer for Japan and Germany.  I am
 JB> just glad that our parents were more patient than some I see nowadays.

We have been spoiled on short conflicts.

-- 
"We are safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."- George Orwell

"For those dreams taken, here are a few nightmares."
Written on a bomb dropped on Tora Bora.

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