Text 26771, 171 rader
Skriven 2007-02-01 23:54:46 av Mimi Gallandt (1:123/789.0)
  Kommentar till text 26737 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: Presidential race
=========================
Ed Hulett -> Mimi Gallandt wrote:
 EH> Mimi Gallandt -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 MG>> Ed Hulett -> John Hull wrote:
 EH>>> John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 JH>>>> Ed Hulett -> John Hull wrote:
 EH>>>>> John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 JH>>>>>> Ed Hulett -> John Hull wrote:
 EH>>>>>>> John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 JH>>>>>>>> Ed Hulett -> Bob Sakowski wrote:
 EH>>>>>>>>> Bob Sakowski -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 BS>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:19:14 -0500, Ed Hulett wrote:

 >>>>>>>>>>> John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:


 EH>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just how do we "shut down the border," John?

 JH>>>>>>>>>>>> It's very simple.  You put up a 14 ft razorwired fence,
 EH>>>>> augmented
 >>>>>>>>>>> with
 JH>>>>>>>>>>>> sensors.  You declare a one mile "no man's land" from the
 EH>>> fence
 >>>>>>>>>>> inland.
 JH>>>>>>>>>>>> You patrol the line with armed UAV's and Army or National
 JH>>>>>> Guard or
 JH>>>>>>>>>>>> Border Patrol ground units.  Anyone who breaches the fence
 EH>>> gets
 EH>>>>>>> one
 JH>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunity to surrender or they get shot.

 >>>>>>>>>>> Oh yeah, that's a realistic plan, John.


 BS>>>>>>>>>> Gosh Ed, you mean youdon't remember how well that strategy
 EH>>> worked
 EH>>>>>>> for
 BS>>>>>>>>>> the USSR in general  and East Germany in Berlin?

 EH>>>>>>>>> Especially the shooting part.

 EH>>>>>>>>> So far, John hasn't said anything about our northern border.


 JH>>>>>>>> So far, we don't have a problem with the northern border.

 EH>>>>>>> We don't? Do you think it'll stay that way if we block off the
 JH>>>>>> southern
 EH>>>>>>> border?

 JH>>>>>>>> But note that I said "the border" - not specifying either one in
 EH>>>>>>> particular.  And, as
 JH>>>>>>>> usual, Sakowski has his head buried up his nethers.  The USSR
 EH> and
 JH>>>>>> East
 JH>>>>>>>> Germany maintained their borders to keep people from getting
 EH> OUT.
 EH>>>>>>> They
 JH>>>>>>>> didn't have millions of people trying to get IN.

 EH>>>>>>> Keeping people in or keeping people out, what's the difference?

 JH>>>>>> That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say.

 EH>>>>> Excellent reply. I guess calling my question dumb allows you to
 JH>>>> ignore it.

 EH>>>>>>> We're already going to have to carry passports if we want to
 EH> visit
 EH>>>>>>> Canada or Mexico. Not to leave, but to get back in. Do you think
 EH>>>>> that's
 EH>>>>>>> a good thing?

 EH>>>>>>> How many of your libeties are you willing to give up in order to
 JH>>>> feel
 EH>>>>>>> secure?


 JH>>>>>> You have to have a passport to get into damn near every country on
 JH>>>> the
 JH>>>>>> planet.

 EH>>>>> You miss the point, John. We now have to have a passport to get
 EH> back
 EH>>>>> *IN* the US.

 JH>>>>>> If it keeps terrorists out, it doesn't bother me.

 EH>>>>> And just how will limiting your liberties keep terrorists out?

 JH>>>>>> Anyway, fat lot of good your liberties will do you if you start
 EH>>>>> glowing
 JH>>>>>> in the dark from a terrorist nuke going off.

 EH>>>>> I see, so it's okay with you if you lose all your liberties just so
 EH>>>>> you're safe from being nuked by a terrorist?

 EH>>>>> You know what Ben Franklin said about your thinking.


 JH>>>> I didn't say anything about giving up any rights, you did.

 JH>>>>> If it keeps terrorists out, it doesn't bother me.

 JH>>>> Requiring you to identify yourself when coming into the country is
 EH>>> not abrogating
 JH>>>> any of your rights, any more than when a cop asks you for your
 EH>>> driver's
 JH>>>> licence when you get pulled over, or the bank asking you for an ID
 JH>>>> before cashing a check.

 EH>>> Whoa! Up until recently, you could travel to and from Canada and
 MG>> Mexico
 EH>>> without much more that a driver's license or simple ID. A passport is
 EH>>> much more than a simple ID -- to get one you must provide your birth
 EH>>> certificate and other proof of citizenship. It costs upwards of
 MG>> $100 to
 EH>>> get a passport.

 MG>> The INS has changed things again as it stands today to come into this
 MG>> country no matter where you've been if you walk or drive in all you
 EH> need
 MG>> is a drivers license, if you fly or sail in you need a passport.
 EH> That is
 MG>> supposed to change to everyone coming in no matter what mode of
 MG>> transportation will need a passport in 2008, but there's a lot of time
 MG>> between now and then and I wouldn't wager that it won't change again
 MG>> before then. It costs $112 dollars for ten years for a passport today,
 MG>> but again there's a lot of time between now and then.

 EH> And, as I have pointed out to John, a driver's license is a simple ID
 EH> that does not prove citizenship, while a passport does prove citizenship.

 EH> The vast majority of illegals do not walk or drive across at a border
 EH> crossing. They will hide themselves in cars and trucks and/or cross
 EH> where there is no border crossing.

 EH> Requiring passports to enter the US at border crossings will only cause
 EH> *honest* people to go to the extra expense and time to get a legal
 EH> passport.

 EH> So, for instance, if I wanted to take a day-trip to Victoria, BC or to
 EH> Surry, BC to visit a friend, I will have to go to the trouble of getting
 EH> my birht certificate and then getting passport photos and then paying
 EH> the $112 for a 10 year passport. Then wait up to 6 weeks to get the
 EH> thing so I can take a *day-trip!*

 EH> I'm not about to take any trip anywhere else out of country. I just
 EH> don't have the money to do that. So, I guess a trip to BC is out of the
 EH> question come 2008 also.

My trips to Mexico are economic and even compared to exchange prices the
savings I get from buying cigarettes in the duty free store will pay off that
passport in less than a year. :)  I really don't understand the duty free store
thing; the land that the store sits on is on *THIS* side of the border, not in
TJ, but by going about 500 feet into TJ and coming straight back out without
going into *ANY* business there I save $10+ per carton and, like at the
exchange, I don't pay taxes on it. I'm not complaining about saving money, I'm
just confused by the weirdness of it.

-- 
L'Chaim

Mimi

In the beginning
the Word already was.

mimigalATcoxDOTnet

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