Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   2373/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3249
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13300
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33421
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33945
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41707
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13613
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16074
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 3492, 205 rader
Skriven 2004-10-15 08:46:28 av BOB SAKOWSKI (1:123/140)
Ärende: Swiftboat Liars Exposed
===============================
The Swiftboat Liars for Bush are demostrated, yet again, as political
pawns, liars and worse.

ABC News
What Happened in Kerry's Vietnam Battles?
'Nightline' Speaks to Witnesses of Disputed Firefights
By ANDREW MORSE

Oct. 14, 2004 -- Oct. 15, 2004 - In the controversy over Sen. John Kerry's
service in Vietnam, Americans have heard from Kerry, from the crew of the
Navy Swift boats he commanded and from other Swift boat veterans who
question the official account of a 1969 incident for which Kerry was
awarded a Silver Star. But there is one group they have not heard from: the
Vietnamese who were there that day.

According to the military citation, Kerry was awarded the medal for his
actions during an intense firefight on Feb. 28, 1969, during which he shot
and killed a Viet Cong fighter who was armed with a rocket launcher.
Members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth group have charged that the
Viet Cong fighter was a teenager who was alone, who was not part of a
numerically superior force, and who was already wounded and running away
when Kerry shot him.

Nightline traveled to Vietnam and found a number of witnesses who have
never been heard from before, and who have no particular ax to grind for or
against Kerry. Only one of them, in fact, even knew who Kerry is. The
witnesses, all Vietnamese, are still living in the same villages where the
fighting took place more than 35 years ago. A Nightline producer visited
them and recorded their accounts of that day. The accounts were
subsequently translated by a team of ABC News translators.

A Village Unchanged

Life along the Bay Hap River in southern Vietnam has changed very little in
those years. The river is lined with small hamlets and isolated shacks
reachable only by boat. They are surrounded by marshland, separated by winding
canals, and concealed by thick walls of vegetation.

The canals lead to Tran Thoi village, the coordinates of which are publicly
available in the U.S. military's after-action report on the 1969 battle.
The Vietnamese government initially rejected Nightline's request to visit
the village, saying it did not want to somehow influence the U.S.
presidential election. Once Nightline explained that the intention was to
simply find out what the Vietnamese people remember and think of what
happened there, permission was granted.

On Feb. 28, 1969, a convoy of three American Swift boats came up the river
under the command of Lt. John Kerry, arriving at the village of Tran Thoi.
According to Kerry's medal citation, the boats "came under intense
automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less
than 50 feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant [junior grade] Kerry ordered
his boat to attack."

The Swift boats, which were transporting a group of the Americans' South
Vietnamese allies, turned into the ambush and beached. According to the
after-action report, the South Vietnamese troops stormed ashore,
overwhelming the local insurgents.

More Fighting

The fierce firefight at Tran Thoi was just the beginning of the day that
has become so central to Kerry's biography. Kerry's boat, PCF 94, and one
of the other boats continued upriver. The ABC News team took the same route
to the site of the second deadly incident that day.

According to the Navy's official report, following the initial ambush,
Kerry's boat and another Swift boat continued up the river to an area where
gunshots had been reported.

Less than a kilometer upriver is Nha Vi, a small hamlet. Vo Van Tam, now 54,
was a local Viet Cong commander during the war. According to him, the area was
a hotbed of guerrilla activity. They had recently been reinforced by a 12-man
unit, supplied with small arms and one B-40 rocket launcher. He said the
reinforcements had been dispatched from provincial headquarters specifically to
target the Swift boats.

According to Vo, there were at least 20 Viet Cong soldiers at Nha Vi there
that day. "There were 12 soldiers from the provincial level and eight from
the district level," he said.

His wife, Vo Thi Vi, 54, said Feb. 28, 1969, is a day that the villagers of
Nha Vi hamlet will never forget. "Everything was destroyed," she said.
"There's no houses left. They leveled everything. There was no leaves left.
The fighting was very fierce."

According to the citation for Kerry's Silver Star, when the boats
approached the hamlet, "a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94" --
Kerry's boat. He "personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the
enemy," the citation says, before commending Kerry's "extraordinary daring
and personal courage" for "attacking a numerically superior force in the
face of intense fire."

That account is disputed by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill, author of
"Unfit for Command," who maintains in his book that the statement "is
simply false. There was little or no fire."

Different Accounts

Villagers say this is what they saw:

"Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo
Thi Vi told Nightline.

She was only a couple hundred yards away when a Swift boat turned and
approached the shore, she said, adding that the boat was unleashing a
barrage of gunfire as it approached.

"I ran," she recalled, "Running fast. ... And the Americans came from down
there, yelling 'Attack, Attack!' And we ran."

Her husband, Tam, said the man who fired the B-40 rocket was hit in this
barrage of gunfire. Then, he said, "he ran about 18 meters before he died,
falling dead."

Was the man killed by Kerry or by fire from the Swift boat? It was the heat
of battle, Tam said, and he doesn't know exactly how the man with the
rocket launcher died. But he knows the man's name -- Ba Thang. He was one
of the 12 reinforcements sent to the village by provincial headquarters,
and after he died, the firefight continued, according to Tam.

"When the firing started, Ba Thanh was killed," Tam said. "And I led Ba
Thanh's comrades, the whole unit, to fight back. And we ran around the back
and fought the Americans from behind. We worked with the city soldiers to
fire on the American boats."

According to the after-action report, after beaching the Swift boat, Kerry
"chased VC inland, behind hooch, and shot him while he fled, capturing one
B-40 rocket launcher, with round in chamber."

None of the villagers seems to be able to say for a fact that they saw an
American chase the man who fired the B-40 into the woods and shoot him.
Nobody seems to remember that. But they have no problem remembering Ba
Thang, the man who has been dismissed by Kerry's detractors as "a lone,
wounded, fleeing, young Vietcong in a loincloth." (The description comes
from "Unfit for Command," by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill.)

"No, this is not correct," Nguyen Thi Tuoi, 77, told ABC News. "He wore a
black pajama. He was strong. He was big and strong. He was about 26 or 27."

Tuoi said she didn't see Ba Thanh get shot either, but she and her husband
say they were the first to find his body. They say they found him a good
distance from his bunker, though she could not confirm that Kerry -- or
anyone else -- had pursued him into the bush.

Her husband, Nguyen Van Ty, in his 80s, had a slightly different account of
how Ba Thang died.

"I didn't see anything because I was hiding from the bullets and the
bombs," he said. "It was very fierce and there was shooting everywhere and
the leaves were being shredded to pieces. I was afraid to stay up there. I
had to hide. And then, when it was over, I saw Ba Thanh was dead. He may
have been shot in the chest when he stood up."

He also said the Swift boats were coming under attack from the Viet Cong
fighters on shore. "We tried to shoot at the boat," he said, "but we didn't
hit anything."

Kerry's citation says he "uncovered an enemy rest and supply area, which
was destroyed," but according to the villagers, the Americans missed the
military supplies. In fact, Vo Ti Vi said, just a few weeks after the
attack, the Viet Cong raided a U.S. base stealing weapons and ammunition.
The weapons remain in Nha Vi all these years later, she says, buried under
her garden.

Back in Tran Thoi, villager Nguyen Van Khoai said that about six months ago
he was visited by an American who described himself as a Swift boat veteran
and told him another American from the Swift boats was running for
president of the United States. Nguyen said the man was accompanied by a
cameraman.

"They say he didn't do anything to deserve the medal," Nguyen said. "The
other day, they came and asked me the questions and I said that the
recognition for the medal is up to the U.S.A."

He said that, after they met, the Swift Boat veteran and the cameraman
turned around and went back down the river. Nightline has not been able to
identify the men.

Campaign Issue Arises

His awards should have been the most unassailable part of Kerry's record.
But then came those campaign ads from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
"He is lying about his record," said Ensign Al French in one ad.

Most of the charges in the ads were general: "When the chips were down you
could not count on John Kerry," said Lt. j.g. Larry Thurlow. "John Kerry is
no war hero," said Lt. Bob Elder. Some of the charges referred to the
anti-war testimony Kerry gave before Congress.

But John O'Neill, the officer who took over command of Kerry's swift boat
after Kerry left Vietnam, raised some specific questions about the incident
for which Kerry received his most significant award, the Silver Star:

"In the Silver Star incident, John Kerry's citation reflects that he
charged into a numerically superior force, and into intense fire," O'Neill
told ABC News in an August 2004 interview. "But the actual facts are that
there was a single kid there who had fired a rocket, who popped up, and
John Kerry with his gunboat, with or without a number of troops, depending
on who you talk to, plopped in front of the kid. The kid was wounded in the
legs by machine gun fire, and as he ran off, John Kerry jumped off the boat
and shot the kid in the back."

Copyright © 2004 ABC News Internet Ventures
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)