Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   817/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3249
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13300
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33421
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33945
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41707
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13613
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16074
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 4117, 94 rader
Skriven 2004-10-26 16:06:40 av Alan Hess
Ärende: God and sex
===================
 The New York Times
October 23, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
God and Sex
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

So when God made homosexuals who fall deeply, achingly in love with each other,
did he goof?

That seems implicit in the measures opposing gay marriage on the ballots of 11
states. All may pass; Oregon is the only state where the outcome seems
uncertain.

Over the last couple of months, I've been researching the question of how the
Bible regards homosexuality. Social liberals tend to be uncomfortable with
religious arguments, but that is the ground on which political battles are
often decided in America - as when a Texas governor, Miriam "Ma" Ferguson,
barred the teaching of foreign languages about 80 years ago, saying, "If
English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for us."

I think it's presumptuous of conservatives to assume that God is on their side.
But since Americans are twice as likely to believe in the Devil as in
evolution, I also think it's stupid of liberals to forfeit the religious field.

Some scholars, like Daniel Helminiak, author of "What the Bible Really Says
About Homosexuality," argue that the Bible is not anti-gay. I don't really buy
that.

It's true that the story of Sodom is treated by both modern scholars and by
ancient Ezekiel as about hospitality, rather than homosexuality. In Sodom, Lot
puts up two male strangers for the night. When a lustful mob demands they be
handed over, Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead. After some further
unpleasantness, God destroys Sodom. As Mark Jordan notes in "The Invention of
Sodomy in Christian Theology," it was only in the 11th century that theologians
began to condemn homosexuality as sodomy.

In fact, the most obvious lesson from Sodom is that when you're attacked by an
angry mob, the holy thing to do is to offer up your virgin daughters.

Still, the traditionalists seem to me basically correct that the Old Testament
does condemn at least male anal sex (scholars disagree about whether the Hebrew
phrasing encompasses other sexual contact). While homosexuality never made the
Top 10 lists of commandments, a plain reading of the Book of Leviticus is that
male anal sex is every bit as bad as other practices that the text condemns,
like wearing a polyester-and-cotton shirt (Leviticus 19:19).

As for the New Testament, Jesus never said a word about gays, while he
explicitly advised a wealthy man to give away all his assets and arguably
warned against bank accounts ("do not store up for yourselves treasures on
earth").

Likewise, Jesus praises those who make themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of
Heaven, but conservative Christians rarely lead the way with self-castration.

Theologians point out that that the Bible is big enough to encompass gay
relationships and tolerance - as well as episodic condemnations of gays. For
example, 1 Samuel can be read as describing gay affairs between David and
Jonathan.

In the New Testament, Matthew and Luke describe how Jesus cured the beloved
servant of a centurion - and some scholars argue that the wording suggests that
the pair were lovers, yet Jesus didn't blanch.

The religious right cites one part of the New Testament that clearly does
condemn male homosexuality - not in Jesus' words, but in Paul's. The right has
a tougher time explaining why lesbians shouldn't marry because the Bible has no
unequivocal condemnation of lesbian sex.

A passage in Romans 1 objects to women engaging in "unnatural" sex, and this
probably does mean lesbian sex, according to Bernadette Brooten, the author of
a fascinating study of early Christian attitudes toward lesbians. But it's also
possible that Paul was referring to sex during menstruation or to women who are
aggressive during sex.

In any case, do we really want to make Paul our lawgiver? Will we enforce
Paul's instruction that women veil themselves and keep their hair long? (Note
to President Bush: If you want to obey Paul, why don't you start by veiling
Laura and keeping her hair long, and only then move on to barring gay
marriages.)

Given these ambiguities, is there any solution? One would be to emphasize the
sentiment in Genesis that "it is not good for the human to be alone," and allow
gay lovers to marry.

Or there's another solution. Paul disapproves of marriage except for the
sex-obsessed, saying that it is best "to remain unmarried as I am." So if we're
going to cherry-pick biblical phrases and ignore the central message of love,
then perhaps we should just ban marriage altogether?

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search |
Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top

--- Msged/2 6.0.1
 * Origin: tncbbs.no-ip.com - Home of the POL_DISORDER echo. (1:261/1000)