Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3249
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13300
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33421
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33945
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41707
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13613
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16074
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
Möte POLITICS, 29554 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 538, 230 rader
Skriven 2004-08-03 10:47:36 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Ärende: 59 Deceits - Pt 1
=========================
   ----- 59deceits-p1.txt begins -----

Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11

By Dave Kopel
 
Last revised: Aug. 1, 2004.
 
There is a Four-page PDF summary, which you may reproduce freely. 
You may also photocopy the full text of this report if you give it away for
free.
 
A volunteer film-maker MMfixer has produced a revised version of the first
14:34 of Fahrenheit 9/11. The new version includes all the material in the
original movie, plus captions to point out where Moore misleads or omits
critical facts. To download the film, you need to use BitTorrent. BitTorrent is
a free and widely used from used to distribute very large media files (such as
Grateful Dead concerts). With BitTorrent, your computer will be downloading
bytes and simultaneously
uploading bytes to other users. Once you have installed BitTorrent, use your
web browser to go to SuperNova.org. The new version is available in the
Movies/Documentary section. The file is very large in size, and is in .mpg
format. The file title is "Michael Moore Fahrenheit911FactsFixedPromo." The
download will take several hours with a high-speed connection. The file is also
available from Kazaa.com, but to access Kazaa you must allow Kazaa to install a
great deal of spyware on your computer.
 

This report was first posted on the web on the morning of July 1. Since then,
I've revised several sections in response to reader requests for
clarifications, and have added additional deceits which have been pointed out
by readers or journalists. As a result, the number of listed deceits has been
raised from 56 to 59. 
 
Thanks to the readers who have written to point out additional deceits or to
point out items which need clarification. Also thanks to the readers who have
written in defense of Moore. Many such readers have been rational and civil.
Moore's reasonable defenders have made two main points: 
 
First, notwithstanding the specific falsehoods, isn't the film as a whole
filled with many important truths? 
 
Not really. We can divide the film into three major parts. The first part
(Bush, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan) is so permeated with lies that most of the
scenes amount to lies. The second, shortest part involves domestic issues and
the USA PATRIOT Act. So far, I've identified only one clear falsehood in this
segment (Rep. Porter Goss's toll-free number). So this part, at least arguably,
presents useful information. The third part, on Iraq, has several outright
falsehoods--such as the Saddam regime's murder of Americans, and the regime's
connection with al Qaeda. Other scenes in the third part--such as Iraqi
casualties, interviews with American soldiers, and the material on bereaved
mother Lila Lipscomb--are not blatant lies; but the information presented is so
extremely one-sided (the only Iraqi casualties are innocents, nobody in Iraq is
grateful for liberation, all the American soldiers are disillusioned, except
for the sadists) that the overall picture of the Iraq War is false.
 
Second, say the Moore supporters, what about the Bush lies? 
 
Well there are lies from the Bush administration which should concern everyone.
For example, the Bush administration suppressed data from its own Department of
Health and Human Services which showed that the cost of the new Prescription
Drug Benefit would be much larger than the administration claimed. This lie was
critical to passage of the Bush drug benefit bill. Similarly, Bush's
characterization of his immigration proposal as not granting "amnesty" to
illegal aliens is quite misleading; although the Bush proposal does not
formally grant amnesty, the net result is the same as widespread amnesty. As
one immigration reform group put it, "Any program that allows millions of
illegal aliens to receive legal status in this country is an amnesty."
 
But two wrongs don't make a right, and the right response to Presidential lies
is not more lies from his political opponents. Moreover, regarding the issues
presented in Fahrenheit 9/11, the evidence of Bush lies is extremely thin.
Moore shows Bush claiming that a particular day at the ranch in Crawford,
Texas, was a working vacation, but Bush appears to be dissembling. Later, after
Osama bin Laden was driven into hiding but was not captured, Bush
unconvincingly claims not to spend much time thinking about bin Laden. Within
Fahrenheit 9/11, most of the rest of alleged Bush administration lies actually
involve Moore's fabrications to create the appearance of a lie--such as when
Moore chops a Condoleezza Rice quote to make her say something when she
actually said the opposite. 
 
The one significant Bush administration lie exposed in the film involves the
so-called USA PATRIOT Act; as Fahrenheit accurately claims, at least some of
the material in the USA PATRIOT Act had nothing to do with 9/11, and instead
involved long-sought items on the FBI agenda which had previously been unable
to pass Congress, but which were enacted by Congress under Bush administration
assurances that they were essential to fighting terrorism. 
 
If you look up the noun "deceit" in the dictionary, you will find that the
definitions point you to the verb "deceive." According to Webster's 9th New
Collegiate Dictionary, the main (non-archaic or obsolete) definition of
"deceive" is "to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid."
Although the evidence in this report demonstrates dozens of plain deceits by
Moore, there are some "deceits" in this report regarding which reasonable
people may disagree. So if you find me unpersuasive on, for example, three
alleged deceits, consider this article to have identified "Fifty-six Deceits"
rather than
fifty-nine. Whether or not you agree with me on every single item, I think you
will agree that the evidence is undeniable that Fahrenheit 9/11 is filled with
deceit.
 
Quite obviously, there are many patriotic Americans who oppose George Bush and
who think the Iraq War was a mistake. But Moore's deceitful movie offers
nothing constructive to help people form their opinions. To use lies and frauds
to manipulate people is contrary to the very essence of democracy, which
requires people to make rational decisions based on truthful information. It's
wrong when a President lies. It's wrong when a talk radio host lies. And it's
wrong when a film-maker lies.

July 11 update: Moore's response.
 
Moore's "War Room" has published a lengthy point-by-point defense of the movie.
Some of the points relate to issues I've raised; others do not. For each item
below, I'll provide a link to Moore's response, when there is one. On two
issues (Afghanistan's President Karzai; John Ashcroft's pre-9/11 attitude
towards terrorism) Moore's response makes some valid points; not necessarily
that Fahrenheit is right on these facts, but at least the facts are disputable.
On one issue (the unemployment rate in Flint), Moore is clearly right. On the
rest of the items I've identified, Moore's responses are extremely
unconvincing, mainly because they so often evade the evidence.
 
The key to Moore's response, and to the movie itself, is summarized by Boston
University Law Professor Randy Barnett:

     ...I was struck by the sheer cunningness of Moore's film. When you read
Kopel, try to detach yourself from any revulsion you may feel at a work of
literal propaganda receiving such wide-spread accolades from mainstream
politicos, as well as attendance by your friends and neighbors. 

     Instead, notice the film's meticulousness in saying only (or mostly)
"true" or defensible things in support of a completely misleading impression.
In this way, Kopel's care in describing Moore's "deceits" is much more
interesting than other critiques I have read, including that of Christopher
Hitchens. Kopel's lawyerly description of Moore's claims shows the film to be a
genuinely impressive accomplishment in a perverse sort of way (the way an
ingenious crime is impressive)--a case study in how to convert elements that
are mainly true into an impression that is entirely false--and this leads in
turn to another thought. 

     If this much cleverness was required to create the inchoate "conspiracy"
(whatever it may be, as it is never really specified by Moore), it suggests
there was no such conspiracy. With this much care and effort invested in
uncovering and massaging the data, if there really was a conspiracy of the kind
Moore suggests, the evidence would line up more neatly behind it, rather than
being made to do cartwheels so as to be "true" but oh-so-misleading. If the
facts don't fit, shouldn't we acquit?

(By the way, a reader responding to Barnett's July 4 post criticized some
aspects of my report. In subsequent drafts, I've revised the article in
response to some of those criticisms.)

Table of Contents
1. 2000 Election
2. Bush Presidency through Sept. 11
3. Saudis.
4. Afghanistan
5. Domestic issues
6. Iraq
7. The man from Flint and terrorists

There are many articles which have pointed out the distortions, falsehoods, and
lies in the film Fahrenheit 9/11. This report compiles the Fahrenheit 9/11
deceits which have been identified by a wide variety of reviewers. In addition,
I identify some inaccuracies which have not been addressed by other writers.
 
The report follows the approximate order in which the movie covers particular
topics: the Bush family, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. This report
focuses solely on factual issues, and not on aesthetic criticism of the film.
 
To understand the deceptions, it helps to understand Moore’s ideological
position. So let us start with Moore’s belief that the September 11 attacks on
the United States were insignificant.
 
Edward Koch, the former Democratic Mayor of New York City, writes:

     A year after 9/11, I was part of a panel discussion on BBC-TV’s "Question
Time" show which aired live in the United Kingdom. A portion of my commentary
at that time follows: 
     "One of the panelists was Michael Moore…During the warm-up before the
studio audience, Moore said something along the lines of "I don’t know why we
are making so much of an act of terror. It is three times more likely that you
will be struck by lightning than die from an act of terror."…I mention this
exchange because it was not televised, occurring as it did before the show went
live. It shows where he was coming from long before he produced "Fahrenheit
9/11."

Edward Koch, "Moore’s propaganda film cheapens debate, polarizes nation," World
Tribune, June 28, 2004. [Moore response: none.]
 
By the way, I don't disagree with the point that it is reasonable to consider
the number of deaths from any particular problem, including terrorism, in
assessing how serious the problem is. Moore's point, however, was willfully
oblivious to the fact that al Qaeda did not intend 9/11 to be the last word;
the organization was working on additional attacks, and if the organization
obtained the right weapons, millions of people might be killed. More
fundamentally, even if Moore's argument
in London is conceded to be legitimate, it contradicts Fahrenheit 9/11's
presentation of Moore as intensely concerned about the September 11 attacks.
 
As we go through the long list of lies and tricks in Fahrenheit 9/11, keep in
mind that Michael Moore has assembled a "war room" of political operatives and
lawyers in order to respond to criticism of Fahrenheit 9/11 and to file
defamation suits. (Jack Shafer, "Libel Suit 9/11. Michael Moore’s hysterical,
empty threats," Slate.com, June 12, 2004.) One of Moore's "war room" officials
is Chris Lehane; Lehane, as an employee of Democratic presidential candidate
Wesley Clark (who was also supported by Moore), is alleged to have spread
rumors to the press about John Kerry's alleged extra-marital affair, although
Lehane denies doing so.
 
Of course if there are any genuine errors in this report, the errors will be
promptly corrected. On July 5, I removed a complaint about a Presidential
approval poll number, which I had wrongly thought was not supported by data.
 
In this report, I number Moore’s deceits. Some of them are outright lies; some
are omissions which create a false impression. Others involve different forms
of deception. A few are false statements Moore has made when defending the
film. Judge for yourself the credibility of Michael Moore's promise, "Every
single fact I state in 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is the absolute and irrefutable
truth...Do not let anyone say this or that isn't true. If they say that, they
are lying."
 
   ----- 59deceits-p1.txt ends -----

John 

America:  First, Last, and Always!
Go to www.madgorilla.us for all your Domain Name Services at the lowest rates.

--- Msged/386 TE 05
 * Origin:  (1:379/1.99)