Text 8321, 108 rader
Skriven 2005-01-31 22:49:19 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
   Kommentar till text 8306 av Gary Braswell (1:123/789.0)
Ärende: Ww 2
============
Gary Braswell -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 GB> Ed Hulett -> VERN HUMPHREY wrote:

 EH>> VERN HUMPHREY -> ED HULETT wrote:
 VH>>>>> But let me point out that in 1917, Germany DID defeat Russia.  The
 VH>>>>> Russians collapsed, signed the peace of Brest-Litovsk, and freed
 VH>>> the
 VH>>>>> Germans to send their forces west -- almost crushing the Allies
 VH>>> before
 VH>>>>> the American Army was fully formed.

 EH>>>> Russia collapsed because the people just didn't want to fight for
 GB> the
 VH>>> Czar a
 EH>>>> longer. It was during then that the Russian revolution began and the
 VH>>> army ju
 EH>>>> didn't want to fight Germany. The Czar also made himself supreme
 VH>>> commander o
 EH>>>> the Russian army while having no real military strategic
 GB> knowledge at
 VH>>> all.

 VH>>> Nevertheless, the Germans DID beat the Russians in WWI, and given the
 VH>>> brutality of Stalin's rule, they had a good chance of repeating the
 VH>>> performance.  In fact, at first many Russians welcomed the Nazis as
 VH>>> liberators -- until they found out how brutal they were.

 VH>>>>> So there was some possibility that the Germans could repeat their
 VH>>>>> earlier victories.

 EH>>>> There was some possiblity, in fact, they did chase Britain out of
 EH>> France at
 EH>>>> Dunkirk. It wasn't until the US joined the war and helped defeat
 EH>> Germany in
 EH>>>> northern Africa and then invaded Europe that Germany was on the
 EH>> defensive.

 VH>>> True -- they could have won, but for a few fatal mistakes.

 EH>> They could have won even after the US entered the war. Had the weather
 EH>> favored them longer at Bastogne, they may have broke free and at least
 EH>> prolonged the war.

 EH>> Tonight, Sunday, on the History Channel they had a program about
 GB> secret
 EH>> weapons of WWII and later. If Germany had been able to build some
 GB> of the
 EH>> planes and weapons that had been developed, they could have bombed the
 EH>> US. They had a stealth flying wing bomber that looks very much like
 GB> the
 EH>> B-2 Spirit. Had they been able to produce more it might have turned
 GB> the
 EH>> war in their favor.

 GB> That is the Horten. I saw it a few years ago in the Garber facility. I
 GB> have some pics if you are interested. Both the Germans and Japanese
 GB> developed some really forward looking aircraft in '44 and '45, stuff
 GB> that we are only today just making work.

Correct. The designer fled to Argentina in 1945. If the Germans and Japanese
had been successful, we would have been in deep doo doo.

 GB> Even had they developed these aircraft in large numbers, I doubt it
 GB> would have changed much.

It very well could have. The Horten was designed as a long range bomber and
could have reached the US east coast from Germany. Had they had it and their
nuclear program been farther along they could have nuked New York City,
Washington DC, etc.

 GB> Believe it or not, 1945 saw the largest production of German aircraft in
 GB>  WII. But they had two major shortages, fuel and pilots. And what pilots
 GB> they had were trained for a matter of hours, not weeks or months, but
 GB> hours, before being sent up.

Those are the only reasons for Germany losing air superiority. Had they come
out with their jet fighters sooner, the Allied bombers would have been
decimated.

 GB> Even with superior aircraft, they would have been shot out of the air by
 GB> our pilots who all were far more experienced.

Not if they had introduced the jet fighters sooner.

 GB> The Germans and Japanese doctrine was to have a small pool of extremely
 GB> good pilots, while the US decided to have a very large pool of good
 GB> pilots. In the end attrition took out the core of the Axis pilots since
 GB> they did not send their most experienced back to train. They kept them
 GB> out there, year after year until one day, the odds caught up with the
 GB> elite.

 GB> About a year ago, top secret files were declassified in the UK. It
 GB> showed they had numerous opportunities late in the war to kill Hitler
 GB> himself. They decided he was by that time, too great of an Allied asset.
 GB> His delusional commands did more to bring the Reich down than dozens of
 GB> divisions could have.

Quite true.

 GB> Now had they developed these weapons earlier in the war and produced
 GB> them in large numbers, it could have been very ugly.

That was my main point.

Ed

--- Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206)
 * Origin:  (1:123/789.0)