Text 9770, 78 rader
Skriven 2005-03-07 23:28:45 av Ed Hulett (1:123/789.0)
   Kommentar till text 9752 av John Hull (1:379/1.99)
Ärende: NEOCONS FRET RE EUROP
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John Hull -> Ed Hulett wrote:
 JH> 07 Mar 05 01:16, Ed Hulett wrote to VERN HUMPHREY:

 EH>> VERN HUMPHREY -> ED HULETT wrote:
 EH>>>>>> I think he's watched too many Hollywood shoot-'em-up movies.

 VH>>>>> There's some actor who has a shtick about a friend who hunts
 VH>>>>> squirrels with a shotgun.  "Correct me if I'm wrong, but a
 VH>>>>> squirrel is about this big, and a shotgun makes a hole about THIS
 VH>>>>> big."

 VH>>>>> I wonder what he'd say if someone did correct him, and pointed
 VH>>>>> out that a shotgun makes a hole about as big as a pinhead? :-)

 EH>>>> Several holes the size of a pinhead. :-)

 VH>>> Yep -- more than one. :-)

 VH>>> But I'd love to get that guy in a position to bet me real money on
 VH>>> the issue. :-)

 EH>> On the History Channel last night they had "Wild West Tech", it
 EH>> was about the weapons available to the lawmen. They told of a
 EH>> shootout Wyat Earp had with one of the "Cowboys." They stood and
 EH>> shot at each other with 10guage shotguns at about 100ft. The
 EH>> cowboy shot at Earp and shred the bottom of his long coat. Earp
 EH>> shot at the cowboy and "nearly tore him in two." They were using
 EH>> double ought buck. David Carradine, the host, fired a 10g loaded
 EH>> with double ought at a plywood cutout of a cowboy and even as
 EH>> close as he was only a half dozen or so shot hit the target. He
 EH>> didn't "nearly tear the target in two." :-)

 EH>>>> Double ought buck at close range makes things a bit messy,
 EH>>>> though. :-)

 VH>>> Even #8 shot at close range produces a mess -- as one coroner
 VH>>> described it, "a bloody rat hole."

 EH>> Oh yeah, it tends to turn it into a pulpy mess.

 JH> I would question the results of that demo just a bit.  First, according
 JH> to FBI records of thousands of shootouts (and I first read this when I
 JH> was in high school) show that most gunfights take place at a distance of
 JH> 7 yards.  I suspect that Earp and his opponent were a lot closer than
 JH> the story implies. Also, modern shotshell loads do not duplicate typical
 JH> performance of 1880 era loads using black powder, paper wadds, and full
 JH> length brass cases.  We also don't know the barrel length, or the choke
 JH> diameter of the original, both of which are critical to patterning.
 JH> Such a test is impressive to watch but hardly definitive.

They might have been 50 feet or possibly even 30 feet apart, but they certainly
weren't as close as 7 feet apart. The "Cowboys" had set up an ambush along the
road that Earp and his "posy" were traveling along looking for... the
"Cowboys." The rest of the posy took off while Earp dismounted and traded 10g
vollies with the leader of the cowboys. After Earp cut the guy down, he tried
to remount his horse and leave. His pistol belt had slipped down around his
knees and he had to pull it up before getting back on the horse. He did this
calmly with rifle fire and pistol fire whizzing past him and his horse.

 JH> I had an old Stevens 20 gauge double years ago that could put 20 gauge
 JH> buckshot loads inside the diameter of a trash can lid at 75 yards all
 JH> day long from the left barrel, but only about half that from the right
 JH> due to choke differences.  It would've made a real mess of a deer or a
 JH> man within those ranges.

True. Those old 10g doubles only had a bead sight at the business end of the
barrel. They weren't meant for accurate fire. :-)

 JH> Beyond that, its a good show and corrects a lot of the stupid Hollywood
 JH> myths that have grown up about the old west.

Yep. I like David Carradine better than his brother who used to host. I don't
watch it every time it's on, but will catch it late on Saturday nights.

Ed

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