Text 10631, 173 rader
Skriven 2009-03-23 22:38:00 av Bob Klahn (1:124/311)
     Kommentar till en text av John Fitzgerald
Ärende: AFTER  8 YRS, GET A CLUE
================================
BK>>   BTW, we are talking chem weapons, so please
BK>>   drop the bio portion, it's deceptive.

JF>>   Saddam was also developing bio's, so please don't drop
JF>>   the bio portion, so you can more easily defend Saddam.

DC>>   That's not what his scientists, nor does the evidence.

 JF>   There were a handful of defectors/scientists whose
 JF>   testimony was deemed exaggerated and unreliable, and this

 The defectors were saying the exact opposite of what you are
 claiming.

 JF>   is what most nay-sayers try to dismiss -all- defectors
 JF>   and scientists with, typically by partisan hacks and

 How many defectors said anything supporting the notion that
 Saddam had WMDs of any kind? Any at all?

 JF>   mainstream news accounts.   However, Saddam had more than
 JF>   500 scientists on his pay roll, many of whom ended up
 JF>   dead just before and during our initial invasion in '03.

 You brought this up before. IIRC, it turned out to be a lot of
 nonsense. So, give us your update.

 JF>   There is more than just one set of accounts from
 JF>   defectors, scientists and journalists on the matter, the

 I doubt there is even one. Ok, defectors who got paid and
 journalists who got it third hand.

 JF>   likes of which continue to surface to this day and which
 JF>   our major media continues to ignore.

 So, give us some recent stuff. Waiting for it.

 JF>     Bill Tierney, a former military intelligence officer

 Turns out he was an analyst.

 JF>     and Arabic speaker who worked as a counter-infiltration
 JF>     operator in Baghdad in 2004 and who was also an

 He was an interrogator. And he was fired.

 JF>     inspector (1996-1998) for the UN (UNSCOM) for
 JF>     overseeing the elimination Iraq's WMD, has translated

 He was fired from Unscom. And he was an interrogator at Gitmo
 and he was fired there after two months.

 JF>     numerous captured Iraqi documents and tried to
 JF>     presented many of his findings to ABC, but was
 JF>     dismissed out of hand without even being listened to by
 JF>     these media/partisan hacks who were obviously
 JF>     stonewalling anything that would give credence to
 JF>     justifying the '03 invasion of Iraq. Might want to look
 JF>     into what he has to say, while you're at it.

 He is the one who released the Saddam tapes. Those are the tapes
 where Saddam is talking with some of his high officials, and
 Saddam say Iraq will *NOT* be the source of a terror attack on
 the US. And they discuss bio weapons and say they are not
 developing them, and that the US is going to fake an arguement
 that they are and the arguement is nonsense.

 JF>   None of them want to entertain the question:  Why
 JF>   wouldn't Saddam pursue biological weapons?   Why not??

 Because they are not that effective in immediate effect, which
 makes them useless as a military weapon. And the big sticking
 point on bio weapons has always been, they have to be something
 that won't kill the user. Which is just a bit hard to do.

 JF>   Esp since the knowledge and expertise to do so was
 JF>   certainly available for the right price. Like you say,
 JF>   Saddam had reason to possess Bio's. He also he had the
 JF>   money, and he had 100's of scientists at his disposal.

 He had no reason. Bio weapons are weapons of hate, but not
 weapons of war. They take too long to act to be useful in war.

 JF>   In any event, Saddam's long history is rife with Bio'
 JF>   development and research.  For example, Iraq admitted in
 JF>   a series of meetings held Aug 17-20, 1995, with UN envoy
 JF>   Rolf Ekeus that it had produced biological weapons.

 Anyone can produce bio weapons, even you could. But you could
 not control which side it kills, nor can you make it act
 quickly.

 JF>   There are numerous other accounts.  Here below are a
 JF>   couple more accounts.  There are many more if you care to
 JF>   put the partisan blinders aside and really do some
 JF>   reading and honest evaluation. There is just too much to
 JF>   ignore, esp in light of Saddam's sordid history.

 You need to look up your own sources.

 JF>  Excerpts:
 JF> ------------------------------------------------------------
 JF> ----------
 JF> http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2001/13-
 JF> 200401.html ...
 JF> BAGHDAD SAID REBUILDING BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS PLANT. Under the
 JF> pretext of responding to the spread of hoof-and-mouth
 JF> disease, Saddam Husseyn is rebuilding a plant at Al-Daura
 JF> that was used to make biological weapons during the Gulf

 Is that a 2001 report? And what did they find when they took
 over that plant after the invasion. That is what you have to
 tell us.


 JF> War, London's "Sunday Times" reported on 15 April. But as
 JF> of this date, Baghdad has said that Iraq is free of any
 JF> incidence of foot-and-mouth disease. ...

 See... it worked.

 ...

 JF>     Iraq Report
 JF> 6 November 2001, Volume  4, Number  37
 JF> ...
 JF> Iraqi scientists are said to have stored smallpox bought in
 JF> recent years from Russian scientists.

 Are said? The main reason not to believe that is Russia's long
 term never violated policy on WMDs. They never gave or sold them
 to anybody. Not that they were nice guys, but they knew WMDs
 could be used against them as well as anyone else.

 John, both the examples you chose were about the worst you could
 come up with. Both have since become eminently verifiable. The
 US took over Iraq 6 years ago. US forces could go in and inspect
 any facilities they wanted. If there was any such facility there
 would be evidence. Even Bush *NEVER* claimed either of the ones
 you cited.

DC>>   His researchers were pulling a scam simiar to what Saddam
DC>>   did in tryimg to fool Iran into thinking that he had WMD.
DC>>   All they wanted was their paychecks.

 JF>   That's the simplistic and naive excuse in a nutshell
 JF>   parroted by partisan hacks..  one which ignores history

 Actually, that more describes your examples.

 JF>   and all the other accounts by defectors/scientists and
 JF>   Iraqi journalists, and one which ignores the question:

 So, tell us where any of these defectors or scientists or Iraqi
 Journalists support anything you said.

 JF>   'Why would Saddam NOT pursue Bio's, since he had the
 JF>   money and scientists?'

 Because Bios would be pretty much useless to him. Read your own
 source. He could not use in on a missile.

 And a bio weapon is too slow acting to be a useful weapon of
 war.


BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Jesus was a liberal.  Live with it.
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