Text 10706, 77 rader
Skriven 2009-03-27 02:03:38 av JOHN FITZGERALD (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av DAVE DRUM
Ärende: Torture - A Realistic View
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JF>   I attacked the opinions of 'two' people who have just written off
JF>   all the people who have gone before them and all the knowledge
JF>   they've amassed, over very many years, while in the same breath
JF>   claim they know what works and doesn't work while previously
JF>   claiming all the techniques have not been 'scientifically' tested.

DD>   And they haven't been scientifically tested.
DD>   What is the problem with that?

JF>   Again, they claim nothing has been scientifically tested, 
JF>   so they are in no position to say what works, 
JF>   as they attempted to do.

DD>   I said that they haven't been "scientifically tested". 
DD>   Why do you keep hammering on that? Is it an attempt 
DD>   to add credence to your otherwise specious arguments?

  No time for your side-winding.  I am addressing what they have said...
not what you have said.  THEY have said none of the Army's techniques 
have been "scientifically tested".   From that point on they can't make 
claims about what works and doesn't work if they are going to stick
to that original contention.



JF>   In reality, they know what works from years 
JF>   of 'experience'. 'Duh'??

DD>   Exactamundo. Now you may be beginning to get it. They have 
DD?   been there and done that ... something that you and I have not.

  So when they claim 'tenderness' works on these dedicated and hardened
combatants, terrorists, etc, you don't know for sure either.  From that 
point on the issues is debated.  



JF>   And just how do you expect to get any info from these 
JF>   characters if they know you will never even make them 
JF>   uncomfortable, or 'abuse' them in any way?   By boring 
JF>   them to death with silly lectures? 

DD>   Why, John, by winning their trust (or at least tolerance).

  You must really think their captives are pushovers and morons.  If they
know you're gonna goo-goo them and place 'nice', and never 'abuse' them, 
or even take their blanket away, because there's always gonna be some 
long-nosed pencil-pusher around to see that that doesn't happen, then
 - WHY - should they turn on their fellow men and go against the cause 
they believe in?   Can you explain WHY??    If terrorists were looking 
for your friends, or fellow soldiers, would you tell them where they 
were held up if they simply tried to win your trust??   Knowing who and 
what they are, do you think they would EVER win your trust??  No, because 
you're not a moron or a push-over.  Pew!    Think for once in your life.  

   You have nothing but empty PR claims that says 'tenderness' and 
'winning their trust' (as if that's ever going to happen) is going to 
make them talk, and if they're protecting friends and a cause they 
believe in, they're just going to sit there and laugh in your face 
knowing you won't even 'abuse' them.

   Obama and company know they have to deal with the real world, but 
at the same time still keep the support of all the goo-goos that voted 
for them.    Hence this Op'Ed and other such attempts at placation.
 
    When it comes down to it, know that these guys are always going do 
what it takes behind closed doors, just as they've always done long 
before Bush ever came around, esp when time is a factor.
Wake up some day, Drum.
 

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