Text 11268, 80 rader
Skriven 2009-05-19 05:37:04 av Bob Ackley (1:300/3)
  Kommentar till text 11252 av JOHN FITZGERALD (1:123/140)
Ärende: (2/2) Re-examining PR Ploys
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not most of this government's 'interrogators' fit one or both descriptions.
There are, after all, publicly available pictures of such, both individuals
and victims.

 BA>>  ...questioning him what he thinks that sadistic psychopath
 BA>>   wants to hear.  Whether that is the truth or not is immaterial,  
 BA>> the victim will say whatever he (or she) has to say to get the  
 BA>> torture to stop.

 JF>     Including telling the truth.  And if they know they truth, they
 JF> will reveal it.  After all, they will say anything to get the
 JF> "torture" to stop.  Correct?   Explain how this negates telling the
 JF> truth.

How does your sadistic psychopath know whether or not what s/he's 
hearing from his/her victim is the truth?  And thus when to stop?
The only answer to that question is that the psychopath finally hears
what s/he wanted to hear - and there's no guarantee that what s/he
wanted to hear is in fact true.

 DC>>   After all, do you really believe all those witches who
 DC>>   confessed to witchcraft really were witches?

 JF>>   First, you are comparing hideous acts of torture with enhanced   
 JF>> interrogation methods (waterboarding, etc)  It's like you're  
 JF>> comparing a slap in the face with a beating with a lead pipe.

 BA>>   At least four victims of that 'enhanced interrogation'
 BA>>   by your sadistic psychopaths *DIED* as a direct result
 BA>>   of that 'enhanced interrogation.'

 JF>     Document that claim please.  Then document your silly "sadistic
 JF> psychopath" claim.  So far all you've done is parrot the assumption.

"The Dark Side" by Jane Mayer, Anchor Books, May 2009.
"Torture Team" by Philippe Sands, Palgrave MacMillan, 2008.

You won't read either of them, neither is on Cheney's or Limbaugh's 'approved
reading' list - although Ms. Mayer is a recognized journalist and Mr. Sands is
a
professor of International Law.

There was also an Iraqi general who died in US military custody after having
been
beaten and stuffed upside down into a sleeping bag, where he suffocated.  That
back in 2003 or 2004.

 JF>     Soldiers who kill during battle do not 'love to murder' just
 JF> because they shoot at the enemy.  Intel people are not
 JF> psycho's...just because the get tough with prisoners.  This is all a
 JF> partisan mud throwing assumption with nothing to support it but more
 JF> assumptions.

Soldiers in battle are not dealing with an enemy that's helpless and usually in
shackles.  In battle the enemy is usually armed and trying to inflict harm on
the soldier(s), that's not the case in prison camps.

 BA>>   There's a very good reason that the CIA ordered the videotapes
 BA>>   that were made of some of its 'enhanced interrogation' sessions  
 BA>> destroyed -

 JF>     Sure, to make sure sensitive intel doesn't fall into the hands of
 JF> our enemies foreign or domestic and to protect the identities of CIA
 JF> personnel.   This amazes you?

Actually it's because they provided evidence of crimes being committed.
Destruction of evidence and obstruction of justice are both felonies, and
in this particular case the perpetrators will not be investigated or
prosecuted.

Another factoid I found interesting is that David Addington (Cheney's legal
advisor) and Jim Haynes (Rumsfeld's legal advisor) both seem to have an
aversion to putting anything in writing over their own signature.  Unlike Mr.
Bybee and Mr. Yoo, both of whom I believe worked under Haynes.  I should
also note that the legal theories propounded by all four men have been
thoroughly discredited by the US Supreme Court.


--- FleetStreet 1.19+
 * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)