Text 11571, 135 rader
Skriven 2009-05-29 09:58:36 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
  Kommentar till text 11564 av Dan Ceppa (1:138/666.0)
Ärende: Unfathomable
====================
Hello Dan!

29 May 09 10:13, you wrote to me:

 RC>> What the story elaborates on below is very scary if it can be
 RC>> upheld..

 DC> Why?

It opens the door for Govt to be able to dictate whatever else one can do in
their homes.

Maybe one cant carve wood figurines in the garage any longer?

Maybe you wont be able to restore that 57 Chevy in your garage anymore because
you home isnt licensed as a repair facility.

Myabe one would no longer be able to work/telecommute from home any longer
unless they have a permit?

Sound extreme, sure, but when one can rationalize openning pandoras box, it
leads to other things..

 RC>> Just think, on major holidays, one couldnt say grace over a meal
 RC>> with family and friends without a permit!

 DC> The story does not say that at all.

Yes it does, on a basic level this is what they were doing, breaking bread and
praying together.

 RC>> If this Pastors get togethers in his home disrupted neighbors,
 RC>> caused traffic and parking problems, I could see the city getting
 RC>> him on some ordinance violation.

 DC> Could it be that that is exactly what the situation is?

No, because the article elaborates that he needed to pay the city for a Major
Use Permit, and the city could not justify that if indeed his gatherings were
disturbing or inconveniencing the neighbors.

You cannot obtain a permit to legally disturb your neighbors in a residential
area, except maybe a building permit for home construction or renovation and
even so there are limits. Like no work after dusk or before dawn.

 RC>> If the Pastor and his friends were getting in the faces of the
 RC>> neighbors or otherwise disturbing the peace, I could see the city
 RC>> getting him.

 DC> There's not enough information on the "dastardly case" to make a
 DC> judgement as to what is really going on.  I can think of many
 DC> scenarios where such gatherings of any nature, secular or sectarian,
 DC> would be intrusive on the neighbors.

Yes, but such article did elaborate on the Pastor being asked to pay for a
Major Use Permit, which presumably if paid, that would be have been the end of
it. If the Pastors activities were disturbing the neighbors, there is no way in
hell that the City would be asking for a fee or a permit to do so.

In Kirkland can you obtain a permit to hold a gathering at your house in which
traffic and parking issues are presented and your guests are allowed to disturb
or inconvenience your neighbors?

So the article does contain enough information.

If it were simply a case of disturbing neighbors, such an article would not
have made it beyond the San Diego newspapers much less into them.

 RC>> But if all they were doing were getting together behind closed
 RC>> doors to share a meal and Bible Studies and Prayers, who is
 RC>> getting harmed, providing such gatherings arent disturbing or
 RC>> inconveniencing the neighbors?

 DC> You answered your own question with those last 5 words in the
 DC> question.


and the article would have mentioned that, and this article would not have
gotten outside of SoCal media and the City would not have been asking for a
Major Use permit! Instead the man would have been warned to stop and then if he
didnt stop face civil and criminal penalties for disturbing the peace. The fact
that the city was asking for permit fees implies that there was no disturbing
the peace going on and there is no permit which allows one to disturb the
peace.

 DC> What you have is a minister basically holding church services.
 DC> There's no reason to not use the regular church for those gatherings.
 DC> After all, the church would have plenty of parking available so as not
 DC> to inconvenience the neighbors.  And, from what I was able to find
 DC> that had anything concrete to say about the matter, it was a fender
 DC> bender that brought the police into the situation.  My guess is hat
 DC> thew complaint is about excessive traffic in a residential area as
 DC> well as using too much parking.

and how does a major use permit mitigate the traffic problem?

After all, if he pays, he carries on with no further interference from the
city..

You do reveal as to how the city found out about the gatherings, but fender
benders can happen in neighborhoods for many reasons. Six months ago, we had a
motorcycle versus Cadillac wreck, neither operator was enroute to any religious
gathering.

This isnt about the City using existing statutes to prevent the disturbing of
the peace because they asking him to purchase a permit to allow it to continue.

If I threw a pool party there is no permit I could buy that would allow me to
inconvenience my neighbors or allow my guests to hoot and holler etc.. Maybe in
the Left Coast states, they do have such things?? {SHRUG}

 DC> All of the articles, the bulk of which are blogs, state "what if's".
 DC> One is the "10's of thousands of dollars [that] would be needed for
 DC> a permit".  There are virtually no "whys" for the town's action
 DC> against the gathering.  Nor have there been any "hows" as to the how
 DC> situation developed.

Use common sense Dan, thats all it takes..

If the issue is disturbing thy neighbors, there is no permit that the city
could require in order to allow one to do so.

 DC> BTW, the number one hit on my search:  FOX News[sic].  I didn't notice
 DC>  any other network or newpaper picking up the story.

So this isnt true then?

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info
E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
Fidonet Netmail Routing Chart Z1 Only: http://netmail.fidonet4u.info
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a liberal.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
 * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)