Text 11731, 134 rader
Skriven 2009-06-02 22:30:00 av Bob Klahn (1:124/311)
     Kommentar till en text av Earl Croasmun
Ärende: Re-examining Torture
============================
->>  One of those tortured that way was one of the
->>  Doolittle Raiders, Chase Neilsen.

 EC> "Nielsen and his fellow prisoners, who were taken to Tokyo,
 EC> were beaten and tortured while being interrogated. Among
 EC> other things, Nielsen said in interviews, bamboo splints
 EC> were shoved under his fingernails and then lighted on fire,
 EC> and the bottoms of his feet were burned with hot coals."
 EC> Yep, that would clearly be torture.  You left that part out.

 Since the question was not what are all the ways Japanese
 tortured US POWs, but did the Japanese waterboard in the manner
 the US did in Iraq, I didn't "leave it out" any more than I left
 out the entire Ecyclopedia Briticanna. It was irrelevant.

 As this part, which you left out, so clearly shows.
 **************************************************************************

~>>  EC> Your whole comparison is exploded in your face, and that irrelevant
~>>  EC> aside is the ONLY thing you can SAY !?!?!?!
 EC>
~>> Waterboarding is illegal.

 EC> Your basis for that was that "it was specifically made
 EC> illegal since 1898." But now you know that you were wrong.
 EC> That was a far different interrogation method that involved
 EC> forced ingestion of water and caused permanent injury and

 Not quite true. That is one form of waterboarding, but the form
 used by US interrogators was also illegal. During WW2 both forms
 were used by the Japanese, and Japanese military personell, and
 some civilians, were prosecuted for using the same method the US
 interrogators. One of those tortured that way was one of the
 Doolittle Raiders, Chase Neilsen. He testified against his
 interrogators and he described the torture in the same terms
 used to describe that used by current US interrogators.

 www.snipurl.com/waterboardingcrime

 **************************************************************************

 ->>  interrogators and he described the torture in the same terms
->>  used to describe that used by current US interrogators.

 EC> US interrogators who burn prisoners with hot coals and
 EC> burning bamboo under the fingernails should be in prison,
 EC> if there any who did that, but that has absolutely nothing
 EC> to do with the thread.

 The thread was about waterboarding, so what you posted clearly
 did not have anything to do with the thread. Just another
 Croasmun strawman.

->>  You are
->>  assuming there were only those two methods of the "water cure".

 EC> You take one shot, it misfires, and then you have nothing

 My shot hit the target directly. Which is why you had to raise a
 massive strawman to pretend there was something more there than
 was under discussion.

 EC> more to add to the thread.  You could have stopped there,
 EC> but you just had to go on to make something up out of thin
 EC> air and then falsely attribute it to me. Nothing new.

 Actually, what I said was in direct response to something you
 said, which you conveniently left out. Another Croasmun
 deception.

 **************************************************************************
 EC> death.  And it was not made illegal.  And you also based it
 EC> on the Yukio Asano myth, which you have long known to be
 EC> wrong.

 What is the Yukio Asano myth? I looked it up, and see nothing
 saying the prosecution of Yukio Asano was a myth.

 Ok, I looked back and found your original msg on that. You are
 assuming there were only those two methods of the "water cure".
 You missed the fact that the method often used is described in
 terms identical to the methods used by US interrogators. And
 Japanese military were tried for war crimes for that.
 **************************************************************************

 EC> Actually Moe, Larry and Curly have been acting as if there
 EC> is only ONE type of water-related interrogation method, and
 EC> they lump everything (Philippines, WW II, Spanish
 EC> Inquisition, and so on) together under the generic heading
 EC> "waterboarding" as if they were all the same thing.  In the

 No, they are not posting here, they are dead. You are pretending
 the only methods used by the Japanese were completely unlike
 those used by US interrogators against Muslim suspects, and
 thereby claiming the post war tribunal precedent does not apply.
 I realize it hurts your feelings to be called on it, but that's
 the way the cookie crumbles.

 EC> course of the thread I have discussed at least a half-dozen
 EC> very different water-related interrogation methods.  Your

 I didn't read the entire thread. In the msg I did read you
 specificaly denied the connection between Japanese waterboarding
 and US waterboarding. The *ONLY* point in contention in this
 sub-thread is that US interrogators are as much guilty of
 torture as the Japanese interrogators who used waterboarding
 against the US POWs.

 EC> straw man is laughably false.

 The strawman is yours, and amazingly false.







->>  Do you realize, by saying what the US interrogators did was not
->>  a crime, you are saying it was not a crime when done to Lt Chas
->>  Neilsen, after he was captured on the Doolittle raid? And when
->>  done to other US personell? And if done to US soldiers in the
->>  future?

 EC> Do you realize that you make up stuff that is wildly false?

 EC> Acknowledging that you have a problem should be the first
 EC> step to dealing with it.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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