Text 11878, 88 rader
Skriven 2009-06-06 10:41:53 av Dan Ceppa (1:138/666.0)
     Kommentar till en text av Michael Aurelio
Ärende: Stirring The Pot, its what Drum says I do.
==================================================
-> On 05 Jun 09  20:00:04, Michael Aurelio got back to Dan Ceppa 
-> Re: Stirring The Pot, its what Drum says I do.

 DC> That's only part of the story.  The public school systems did develop
 DC> that way,  however, the various religious groups in the are involved
 DC> with the public schools were adament that there was no religious
 DC> instructions taught in them.  They did not want one sect having any
 DC> advantage over any of the others.
 MA> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 MA> If that were so, why did school prayer only become illegal in the
 MA> 1960's Your information is inaccurate.

It's actually quite simple.  It was in the 50's that school prayer was 
being heavily reintroduced as a way to combat communism.  Do note 
that that is the time frame that "under God" is inserted into the 
pledge of allegiance.  
 
 DC> See above.  Separation of church and state was the rule of the day well
 DC> before the First Amendment.  It was instisted upon by those religious
 DC> groups.
 MA> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 MA> Please give me references to this "History"
 MA> See Above, Your information is inaccurate, full of self absorbed
 MA> opinion and conjecture.

All you need to do is check the origins of public schools in this country.  


 MA>> The separation of church and state excuse is just that, an excuse.
 MA>> The words are found nowhere in our constitution.
 DC> Again, it is part and parcel to the founding of this country.
 MA> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 MA> Not in the way it is used today but, I will agree with you that the
 MA> principals were there.

It's exactly the way it's used today.  It is those that want to push 
their religion to the forefront in public that are going against both 
the Constittion and the tradition established before it. 

 MA> The important issue that "Ross S" is missing is, today it is taken as
 MA> literal law at the expense of our liberties and sovereignty. There is

There are no rights lost.  No churches have been closed or boarded up.  

 MA> no balance in how the principal is applied, If a Muslim wants to pray
 MA> in school and is denied, all hell breaks out almost to the point of
 MA> Jihad, people are sued, then the Reverened Al "Sharptougue" and the
 MA> ACLU get involved, retractions are made and the media is up in arms,
 MA> all in the guise of political correctness.

I know of no instances of that happening.  

 MA> If a Christian or Jew asks the same, 90% of the time he is quickly
 MA> mocked, laughed at and denied his right, even when brought to court the
 MA> Muslim has a better chance of getting his way. Then the media dismisses

Strange, I knew a lot of Jewish kids in school that loved getting their
holidays off as well as the Christain ones.  

 MA> or plays down the incident, paints the plaintiff as a
 MA> "Holier-Than-Thou" fanatic, and instead of fighting for the rights of
 MA> the individual, Al Sharpton and the ACLU play it off as some sort of
 MA> misunderstanding -or- they claim that the plaintiff is unreasonable,
 MA> this is not balance. 

Take a look.  You'll find that the majority of cases against public 
and gvt prayer are at least backed fully by religius groups.  

 MA>> The separation of church and state is a legal and politically correct
 MA>> principle "derived from" the First Amendment but, it actually does not
 MA>> appear anywhere in the First Amendment.
 DC> It appears as the traditions instituted by the religions themselves.
 MA> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 MA> Exactly, it is a practice that has been understood since this country
 MA> was formed. Today it is being used as a knife to cut off the hands of
 MA> those who made it, the people.

No, it's not.  The problems are arising because certain groups want their 
particular brand of religion to be law of the land.  

The Founding Fathers were quite aware of the problems involved when 
church and state are one and the same. That's why the separation was 
written into the the Constitution and carried forward with the Amendments 
to it.  


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