Text 12844, 397 rader
Skriven 2010-04-25 13:31:00 av WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ROSS CASSELL
Ärende: Re: GM
==============
-=> ROSS CASSELL wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

 RC> Hello WAYNE!

 RC> 24 Apr 10 22:21, you wrote to me:

 WC>> Because that peak was caused by the merging of banks with
 WC>> investment groups and derivatives, AND under so and so's
 WC>> administration the economy CRASHED and BURNED due to the repeal
 WC>> of Glass Steagall introduced to Congress by a Republican
 WC>> Congressman from Texas.

 RC>> These peaks were achieved well before the meltdowns and the
 RC>> poopoo'ing being done about those peaks were done only for
 RC>> partisan reasons..

 WC> There were peaks before The Great Depression as well, large ones.

 RC> True, but what I was talking about deals with the fact that at the time
 RC> of the Bush peaks, no one was poopooing the lack of any act, or trouble
 RC> with the overall market..

 RC> Hindsight is 20/20 Wayne, I am not employing it here and it is quite
 RC> unfair for you to attempt to employ it in that timeline.

 RC> Yeah yeah, if they knew then what they know now.... But irrelevant to
 RC> the point I was making..

 RC> But to hear you talk, everytime the market does good must mean that a
 RC> bust is just around the corner.. So with the boast made about the DOW
 RC> poking above 11K, we better watch out..


 RC>> Same exact scenarios under a Gore or Kerry, and they would have
 RC>> been singing, look at this prosperity.

 WC> Why is it nothing in your reply containing MY points with only your
 WC> points substituted?

 RC> I wasnt rebutting every single thing you said, only that which was part
 RC> of the original point that I was making, that rah-rah'ing about how
 RC> well Wall Street is doing, all depends on which party is in power.

 WC> You absolutely ASTOUND me.

 WC> Somehow I don't believe you'll ever work your way to
 WC> the top of the top of the oligarchy working at Office Depot
 WC> but you seem to ascribe to the idea rich people are intrinsically
 WC> better than you and deserve to pay proportionally less in taxes than
 WC> you do.

 RC> I cannot abide by a mindset that seeks to punish those that have
 RC> succeeded because the idiots on the left feel guilty that others cannot
 RC> succeed. 

Yes but that has nothing at all to do with me or my mind set.
I grew up in a town full of wealthy people.

I harbor no resentments against the wealthy and if you _think_
I do you're quite mistaken.


 RC> Wealth re-distribution is evil Wayne, slippery slope... I do
 RC> not want a tan uniform and my own govt issued rice paddy.

Wealth redistribution has been the venue of the Republican party for decades,
from the working class to the already wealthy.

Let's take a simple example:

My sister is rather well off at 170K a year and so was able to take 
advantage of the Florida school voucher program sold as a means for any 
kid to get the best private school education.

Now lets address the *any* kid eligabilty issue.

Vouchers pay for a *fraction* of the cost of private schooling your kid,
say offhand 20 percent though I do not know the actual figure.

Say it costs $6,000 - $10,000 a year to send your kid to private school
with the voucher program subsidizing 20 percent.

That comes to $1200 - $2000 a year break a year for my sister
for EACH of her kids now finished school and adults.
 $2,400 - $4,000 break for BOTH.

Now say you work at Office Depot and have two kids, can such a one afford the 
$9,600 - $16,000 a year to make up the difference?

Can the greater portion of the blue collar work force afford it?

I don't think so yet that's how it's been sold, any kid is eligable for the
voucher
and they are but the schools require the $9,600 - $16,000 additional costs of 
private school as well.

Hypothetically assuming YOU have two kids could you afford this?

There are a GREAT many examples of this Republican shifting of wealth from the
working class and the poor to the already wealthy.

The G.W.B. medicare part D program being another.

Value added tax yet another and there's at least one state in the south 
that does this and it's a  rather poor state at that.

Who enacted the Medicare part D?
G.W. Bush and I've refused to apply for it both on principle and because
my medications cost MORE under that program though not enough to suffer the so
called doughnut hole
were my medications to cost about 20 percent more a year.

Which party is pushing the "value added tax."
Which applies to groceries and other necessities ALL must have
but does not apply to the purchase of a Mercedes or Yacht?

Jeb Bush passed the school voucher bill in Florida.

All these things impact the working stiff such as yourself disproportionally to
the rich for which they merely represent a hidden tax break you and the 
average working family can not take advantage of.

This redistribution of wealth UPWARDS has been going on a LONG time
and it's the Republicans doing it.

Why all these breaks for the wealthy when you yourself as a working man 
cannot take advantage of them and pay a disproportionally higher cost
than the wealthy to pay for these hidden tax breaks?

Like I said before, I do not understand you wanting to take on a 
disprortionally greater tax burden than the wealthy.

Sure the Republicans TALK a great deal about helping the working man however
it is NOT reflected in the legislation they pass that disproportionally
affects you over the wealthy.

Yet one last example, Jeb Bush again.

A while back it was discovered it would cost hundreds of millions
of dollars to retore the ecosystem of the Everglades in Florida
due to massive damage inflicted by the sugar industry.

Jeb Bush launched an intensive television ad campaign to convince the
residents of Florida reject making the sugar industry responsible
for cleaning up the mess they made making a HUGE issue out of the
1 - 2 cents more the sugar industry would have to add to the cost
of a five pound bag of sugar to make up for their _losses_.

The ad was on a dozen times or more every day for months and
so when that ammendment came up on the ballot Florida voters
voted down to making the sugar industry responsible 
fixing the mess they created in the first place.

Guess who pays?
Why you the average taxpayer that's who and to the tune of a good many hundreds
of millions of dollars.

 RC> If there are no incentives to achieve success, then there can never be
 RC> success. Taxing the holy fuck out of them, certainly is a incentive
 RC> destroyer..

The cost of what you call incentives to success is a key Republican 
talking point however you're overlooking the DISINCENTIVE of you the working
man ever being able to achieve a similar level of success due to the tax 
burden disproportionally being shifted to the blue collar worker.

Take a few moments to think about it.

The media is controlled by the wealthy and they spread their messages
of disinformation around the clock so many are pulled into believing it.

I mean you spend much of your time WORKING as I once did so where's
the time to spend analysing the reality of it all?

I know I never gave it much thought until overburdened
with excessive time on my hands being for the greatest
part bedridden.

 RC> You talk affectionately (elsewhere) about Gateway Computers, 

You betcha and with complete sincerity!

 RC> forgetting
 RC> for the moment that they are now owned by Acer 

Now just by what means did you arrive at the mistaken conclusion
I was not aware of the takeover by Acer?

I'm well aware of it and thus my disdain for newer Gateways not knowing
their current state of quality?

I was thrilled to death with my 1999 Gateway and wish I had it now.
I've repeated said I do not trust Lenovo and Gateway computers but somehow
you either elect to avoid taking this into account or simply forget when I post
to that.

The current Gateway I was looking at is from when they were still manufactured
in the U.S. but then for what the guy wants for it I can build my own white
box.

Sure I'd prefer it have a Intel motherboard with Intel onboard but
economically it's not feasable for me to purchase such a system.

Both my current IBM and previous Gateway were both manufactured to the highest
quality standards both having been manufactured before IBM becoming Lenovo
and Gateway becoming Acer.

Nothing offered today at Best Buy or the place you work offer anything
close in quality.

I am STILL sorely tempted to purchase that 32 bit Gateway however
as we've gone to 64 bit processors now I'll settle for a cheap imported
motherboard and U.S. manufactured 64 bit CPU.

I hate having to abandon the quality and figure I'll wind up 
purchasing a number of cheap imported motherboards over time while this
U.S. manufactured one has stood up over 12 years now.

My Gateway motherboard was manufactured in the U.S. as well, by Jabil
Circuit.

Guess where they're located?
Saint Petersburg Florida just across town from here to the north.
Manufactured by Jabil Circuit under contract to Intel located in California
U.S.A.

In point of fact back then Intel offered precisely the SAME motherboard
though my was branded Jabil there was absolutely no difference
between them.
 
 RC> and that manufacturing
 RC> is being done overseas and their profits now go there... Lets look at

No lets look instead at the party at the root of "outsourcing" manufacturing 
the cost of American jobs!

It's the top 2 percent of the oligarchy responsible and the vast majority of
them are Republican.

 RC> them when they were still US based.. Do you think they (its founder)
 RC> entered into business for humanitarian reasons or to make that thing
 RC> liberals hate, --PROFIT-- ?? i

Where do get the idea liberals hate profit?
Liberals like to have good jobs you know and the way to do that
is to bring manufacturing back to America with our advanced manufacturing.

Unfortunately these jobs having been outsourced primarily through 
legislation favoring the oligarchy the vast majority of whom are Republican
we've lost our edge on research and development to China and India both of
whom are doing a great deal more in regards to cutting edge technology
and manufacturing.

An electric car NOW offered for sale in China has TWICE the range
of the soon to become available Chevy Volt.

 RC> Pick any business, headed by any
 RC> individual well known, what would things been like if you liberal types
 RC> had been allowed to punish them they way you think they should be
 RC> punished now?

You need to broaden your sources of information rather than sitting down at
the television at the end of the day and taking what is spoon fed the masses
and taken as gospel due to the endless repitition of misinformation.

Oh yeah, you work for a living, you don't have time.

You just want to come home, kick back and accept what T.V.
or conservative web sites have to offer that fits into your
idea of who is really responsible for the financial difficulties the U.S.
currently faces.

I didn't analyse this stuff either until such time as I often don't even 
get out of this apartment to check my mail every four days or so.

I did EXACTLY that, worked, often 11 hours a day, six days a week
and when I got off of work do you thing I gave any thought at all to the 
greater issues of the day?

Not at all.
I was comfortable working and making a decent wage so I spent
my off work time indulging in my prefered activities myself, oftimes
glued to the idiot box.

I've TWO T.V.s now but not a converter box having given mine
away to someone who actually watches T.V.

I still watch local PBS T.V. (wedu) in Tampa however I'm doing so via
cable internet and www.pbs.org using a motherboard and computer manufactured 
in the U.S.

Motherboard, computer and monitor manufactured in the U.S.
Mouse, memory and keyboard manufactured in China or elsewhere.

 RC> Proportionally less, heh, seems to be that they write bigger checks to
 RC> the IRS than I ever will.

Look up "proportionally"

The IRS checks are bigger because they make proportionally more than you.
Look at the *percentage* to gain insight.

See Warren Buffet on 60 minutes tell of his dismay that his secretary pays
a higher percentage in taxes than he does.

This NOT including the hidden tax breaks noted above.

 WC> I'll NEVER as long as I live understand that mind set.

 RC> Just as there are alot of things you have done, that normal people cant
 RC> understand..

Just as I'll never understand you desiring to maintain the status quo
of your never having a decent chance at having the success you seem
to so much desire while supporting tax advantages for the already wealthy.

Please do take the time to read this one post a time or three as
I took a great deal of my time to lay it out just as the facts 
support.

After all, you don't have the time due to having to work that I have
and only get what the media constantly bombards you with.

Let me end with one little point.
Who owns the media?

The working class or the wealthy?

As the wealthy demonstrably OWN the media whose agenda
do you think that media would push?

That of making themselves even more wealthy while shifting
various financial burdens to the working middle class and poor
or their own?

Look again at the above examples I pointed out in some detail.

It's a FACT that 72 percent of Americans believed the 9/11 attacks were 
perpetrated Saddma Hussein in collusion with Osama bin Laden at the time 
we invaded Iraq.

Even now though completely debunked some 35 - 40 percent of Americans 
still believe that to have been the case.

It's really completely a no brainer to arrive at the correct
conclusion.

Now were any to have given it any thought at all  would
find it utterly ridiculous that a secular dictator would support
a radical Muslim element completely hostile to his regime.

Al Qaeda is largely comprised of the most fundementalist Wahabi 
element of Islam, just like those in Saudi Arabia.

Our close Arab allies, or at least the Bush family allies are those
that funded Al Qaeda but you won't hear that on mainstream American media.

I'm still currently evaluating the Asian Times online but they have some
remarkably hawkish attitudes about attacking Iran.

Does it stay in my news bookmarks or wind up in my blogs bookmarks?

I've not yet gotten enough input from viewing it to as yet
make my final determination.

A bunch of what they say conflicts with my current attitudes
but those attitudes are subject to change as I continue to evaluate 
that source.

Will it change my views or reinforce my current views?
I do not as yet know.

Just as I recently abandoned my stance on nuclear power
after 25 year opposed but that only in the case of Liquid
Floride Thorium Reactors, LFTR for short.

As I've the time coupled with little ability to do much else
I continue to inform myself.

This is my best case so don't expect me to go over the same material over and
over again.

That's what the mainstream media does to sell its' agenda
and once again who owns the mainstream media?

The wealthy or the working class?

Whose agenda would they just natually push?

That which favors the wealthy such as themselves or the working middle
class?

Another extremely simple conclusion _can_ be drawn.

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