Text 1601, 108 rader
Skriven 2006-06-30 14:06:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av JOHN MASSEY
Ärende: Torture.
================
 BK>>>>   And, I have not implied that at all. My position is to move
 BK>>>>   welfare recipients into jobs. Now taxing more those who earn
 BK>>>>   more is appropriate,

 JM>>> Only if it is because they earn more not if it because they
 JM>>> are in a higher tax bracket.

 BK>>   That's your position, I disagree. I hold that those who benefit
 BK>>   more should pay more.

 JM> You have never shown that they benefit more.

 Unless you equate more money with benefiting less...

 They come out of it with more money, more property, more
 accumulated wealth. To a Franciscan Nun that may not be
 benefiting more, but under our system that does qualify as
 benefiting more.

 BK>>>>>>   BTW, my position is we need to end welfare, pretty well
 BK>>>>>>   completely, but provide living wage jobs

 JM>>>>> And just who decides what this living wage is to be?

 BK>>>>   Now you want to argue details instead of principle?

 JM>>> No I just wanted to know who you thought should decide.

 BK>>>>  Ok, if you agree a living wage is a good idea,

 JM>>> I do not agree that any artificalally imposed  living wage
 JM>>> is a good idea.

 BK>>   Wage restrictions go back well into the early days of this
 BK>>   country. And go back well before this country. I wonder why any
 BK>>   govt would want to import poverty. Or to develop it locally.

 JM> I'm not in favor of wage restrictions any more that I am
 JM> not in favor of the minimum wage.

 I'm in favor of what works. The minimum wage works on several
 levels. One most overlooked, AFAICS, is anyone paying illegal
 aliens less than the minimum wage proves he knows they are
 illegal.

 JM> I am in favor of the government staying out of mix when it
 JM> comes to an individual and an employer.

 I'm in favor of the government restricting access to this
 country, and not seeing itself as having a duty to provide an
 endless source of cheap labor. I am in favor of this country not
 holding down wages by manipulating the economy. I am infavor of
 this country not putting people out of work.

 So far I don't get what I want.

 BK>>>>   Or we could use the poverty level as the starting point.

 BK>>>>   Or, I could do it. That would work too.

 BK>>>>>>   for those who need  them. That is my correct position.
 BK>>>>>>   Any other claim by anyone else is false.

 JM>>>>> So you think that everyone should pay the same % of their
 JM>>>>> income in taxes no matter how much they earn?

 BK>>>>   Where did that come from?

 JM>>> You said that everyone should pay their fair share and that
 JM>>> means there should only be one tax bracket.

 BK>>   I don't recall saying that, in those words, but I do believe
 BK>>   those who benefit more paying more is paying their fair share.
 BK>>   Or closer to it.

 JM> So now all you have to do is show that those you want to
 JM> put in a higher tax bracket  benefit more. So far no one
 JM> has done that.

 Uh... they make more money.

 BK>>   As it was BB, Before Bush, they were paying closer to their
 BK>>   fair share.

 BK>>>>  Actually, they pretty much *WERE*  paying the same percentage,

 JM>>> No the wealthy have always paid a higher share than the
 JM>>> poor.

 BK>>   You see, the choice of words can slide the meaning all over the
 BK>>   place. They may well have paid a higher share, in dollars, but
 BK>>   not a higher share of their income. I do believe they should pay
 BK>>   a higher percentage of their income overall, because they have
 BK>>   more left over after necessities, they have benefited more.

 JM> Just because that have more left over after necessities
 JM> does not mean they have benefited more. It just means they
 JM> have made more.

 In our system, that is benefiting more.


BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Practicing heretic, and proud of it.
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