Text 5081, 88 rader
Skriven 2007-09-05 07:33:16 av Bob Ackley (1:2905/3)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
Ärende: More neo-con tactics
============================
Replying to a message of BOB KLAHN to BOB ACKLEY:

 BA>> and plenty of evidence that the fire was started
 BA>> unintentionally by government tanks ramming into the
 BA>> occupied wood frame building.  And finally note that all of

 BK>  Why would ramming anything into a wood frame building
 BK>  necessarily start fires, at widely seperated points, withing
 BK>  short intervals?

When you ram a fifty ton tank into a wood frame structure it shakes,
a lot, in addition to collapsing at and near the point of impact.  Heating,
cooking and lighting in the building - a wood frame structure that had been
baking in the Texas sun for years - was candles and Coleman stoves and
lanterns.  When you knock over a candle and it lands on something flammable,
like dry wood, you get a fire.

 BA>> the deaths, including the 4 dead ATF goons, could have been
 BA>> avoided if the law had been followed WRT obtaining and
 BA>> serving search warrants.

 BK>  A: They had a search warrant.

They didn't bring it with them.  And a search warrant is served by
walking up to the door of the premises, knocking and demanding entry.
Unless, of course, the agents had asked for and the judge had granted
a 'no-knock' provision; they didn't and he didn't, no such provision is
in the warrant.

 BK>  B: The shooting started when they were trying to serve the
 BK>  warrant.

They never tried to serve the warrant; they couldn't, they didn't have it with
them.  The shooting started by accident.  An ATF agent was apparently jostled
as he was rushing out of one of the cattle trailers and his weapon went off.
The rest of the ATF agents immediately opened full automatic fire at the
building.  There was no return fire from the building for almost two minutes
(according to the TV news crew on the scene).

 BK>  C: Since when is shooting a cop considered an acceptable way of
 BK>  refusing a warrant?

It isn't.  If entry is refused when demanded the police have every right
to forcibly enter the premises, using whatever means are necessary and
available.  In this particular case there was no demand for entry, ATF just
started shooting; they came in primed for violence, otherwise there wouldn't
have been eighty of them, all body armored and equipped with automatic
weapons and armor-piercing ammunition.  And remember that ATF is
(supposed to be, under its charter) a *tax* enforcement agency, not a *law*
enforcement agency.

 BK>>>  The accusations against Elian's relatives were not false. They
 BK>>>  were holding him and refusing to return him to his father, who
 BK>>>  had never been accused of any abuse of the child.

 BA>> The father had no problem with his kid moving to Florida
 BA>> with his mother. Unfortunately the mother drowned en route.

 BK>  Did he? Why didn't the Father go with? Why did the mother take
 BK>  him with her boyfriend? Why did the father go to court in Cuba
 BK>  to get custody before they left?

 BA>>  The father also had no problem with Elian remaining in
 BA>>  Miami until Castro got upset about all the fuss being made
 BA>>  over the boy being a 'miracle child' of some sort; THEN he
 BA>>  suddenly decided he wanted his son returned to him.

 BK>  Which you have no way of knowing. And the father is still the
 BK>  lawful custodian of the child.

 TR>>>> Number of 6-year-old boys deported to totalitarian
 TR>>>> dictatorships by Reno: 1

 BK>>>  He was not "deported" he was returned to his Father. OTOH, every
 BK>>> single suspect 'rendered' to a dictatorship for torture in the 
 BK>>> "war on terror" was "deported" to a brutal dictatorship.

 BA>> Note that during the Clinton administration the heroic
 BA>> immigration agents grabbed
 BA>> a high school student out of South High in Omaha and
 BA>> shipped him to Mexico. The

 BK>   Do you have any evidence of that?

I was here at the time.  The stories were in the Omaha fishwrapper.

--- FleetStreet 1.19+
 * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:2905/3)