Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   7537/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1123
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3250
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13300
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/341
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4289
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   33431
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2065
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33946
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24159
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4436
FN_SYSOP   41708
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13615
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16075
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   20973/22112
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   930
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
Möte POL_INC, 14731 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 5628, 299 rader
Skriven 2007-12-04 22:33:00 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
Ärende: a coup has occured
==========================
Hello all!

I found this on usenet, in a group in no way connected with politics btw.

page of search results from NY Transfer's Archives:
http://tinyurl.com/2bvgqb

Full URL:
http://blythe-systems.com/mailman/namazu.cgi?query
ellsberg+and+whistleblowers&submit Search%21&max &result normal&sort score

[Editors Note: Daniel Ellsberg, the former Defense Department analyst who
leaked the secret Pentagon Papers history of the Vietnam War, offered insights
into the looming war with Iran and the loss of liberty in the United States at
an American University symposium on Sept. 20. Below is an edited transcript of
Ellsbergs remarkable speech.]

__________________________________________________

A Coup Has Occurred

By Daniel Ellsberg

Text of a speech delivered September 20, 2007

I think nothing has higher priority than averting an attack on Iran, which I
think will be accompanied by a further change in our way of governing here that
in effect will convert us into what I would call a police state.

If theres another 9/11 under this regime ] it means that they switch on full
extent all the apparatus of a police state that has been patiently constructed,
largely secretly at first but eventually leaked out and known and accepted by
the Democratic people in Congress, by the Republicans and so forth.

Will there be anything left for NSA to increase its surveillance of us? ]  They
may be to the limit of their technical capability now, or they may not. But if
theyre not now they will be after another 9/11.

And I would say after the Iranian retaliation to an American attack on Iran,
you will then see an increased attack on Iran " an escalation " which will be
also accompanied by a total suppression of dissent in this country, including
detention camps.

Its a little hard for me to distinguish the two contingencies; they could come
together. Another 9/11 or an Iranian attack in which Irans reaction against
Israel, against our shipping, against our troops in Iraq above all, possibly in
this country, will justify the full panoply of measures that have been prepared
now, legitimized, and to some extent written into law.  ]

This is an unusual gang, even for Republicans. [But] I think that the
successors to this regime are not likely to roll back the assault on the
Constitution. They will take advantage of it, they will exploit it.

Will Hillary Clinton as president decide to turn off NSA after the last five
years of illegal surveillance? Will she deprive her administration her ability
to protect United States citizens from possible terrorism by blinding herself
and deafening herself to all that NSA can provide? I dont think so.

Unless this somehow, by a change in our political climate, of a radical change,
unless this gets rolled back in the next year or two before a new
administration comes in " and theres no move to do this at this point " unless
that happens I dont see it happening under the next administration, whether
Republican or Democratic.


The Next Coup

Let me simplify this and not just to be rhetorical: A coup has occurred. I woke
up the other day realizing, coming out of sleep, that a coup has occurred. Its
not just a question that a coup lies ahead with the next 9/11. Thats the next
coup, that completes the first.

The last five years have seen a steady assault on every fundamental of our
Constitution, ] what the rest of the world looked at for the last 200 years as
a model and experiment to the rest of the world " in checks and balances,
limited government, Bill of Rights, individual rights protected from majority
infringement by the Congress, an independent judiciary, the possibility of
impeachment.

There have been violations of these principles by many presidents before. Most
of the specific things that Bush has done in the way of illegal surveillance
and other matters were done under my boss Lyndon Johnson in the Vietnam War:
the use of CIA, FBI, NSA against Americans.

I could go through a list going back before this century to Lincolns suspension
of habeas corpus in the Civil War, and before that the Alien and Sedition Acts
in the 18th century. I think that none of those presidents were in fact what I
would call quite precisely the current administration: domestic enemies of the
Constitution.

I think that none of these presidents with all their violations, which were
impeachable had they been found out at the time and in nearly every case their
violations were not found out until they were out of office so we didnt have
the exact challenge that we have today.

That was true with the first term of Nixon and certainly of Johnson, Kennedy
and others. They were impeachable, they werent found out in time, but I think
it was not their intention to in the crisis situations that they felt justified
their actions, to change our form of government.

It is increasingly clear with each new book and each new leak that comes out,
that Richard Cheney and his now chief of staff David Addington have had
precisely that in mind since at least the early 70s. Not just since 1992, not
since 2001, but have believed in Executive government, single-branch government
under an Executive president " elected or not " with unrestrained powers. They
did not believe in restraint.

When I say this Im not saying they are traitors. I dont think they have in mind
allegiance to some foreign power or have a desire to help a foreign power. I
believe they have in their own minds a love of this country and what they think
is best for this country " but what they think is best is directly and
consciously at odds with what the Founders of this country and Constitution
thought.

They believe we need a different kind of government now, an Executive
government essentially, rule by decree, which is what were getting with signing
statements. Signing statements are talked about as line-item vetoes which is
one [way] of describing them which are unconstitutional in themselves, but in
other ways are just saying the president says I decide what I enforce. I decide
what the law is. I legislate.

Its [the same] with the military commissions, courts that are under the entire
control of the Executive Branch, essentially of the president. A concentration
of legislative, judicial, and executive powers in one branch, which is
precisely what the Founders meant to avert, and tried to avert and did avert to
the best of their ability in the Constitution.


Founders Had It Right

Now Im appealing to that as a crisis right now not just because it is a break
in tradition but because I believe in my heart and from my experience that on
this point the Founders had it right.

Its not just our way of doing things " it was a crucial perception on the
corruption of power to anybody including Americans. On procedures and
institutions that might possibly keep that power under control because the
alternative was what we have just seen, wars like Vietnam, wars like Iraq, wars
like the one coming.

That brings me to the second point. This Executive Branch, under specifically
Bush and Cheney, despite opposition from most of the rest of the branch, even
of the cabinet, clearly intends a war against Iran which even by imperialist
standards, standards in other words which were accepted not only by nearly
everyone in the Executive Branch but most of the leaders in Congress. The
interests of the empire, the need for hegemony, our right to control and our
need to control the oil of the Middle East and many other places. That is
consensual in our establishment. ]

But even by those standards, an attack on Iran is insane. And I say that
quietly, I dont mean it to be heard as rhetoric. Of course its not only
aggression and a violation of international law, a supreme international crime,
but it is by imperial standards, insane in terms of the consequences.

Does that make it impossible? No, it obviously doesnt, it doesnt even make it
unlikely.

That is because two things come together that with the acceptance for various
reasons of the Congress " Democrats and Republicans " and the public and the
media, we have freed the White House " the president and the vice president "
from virtually any restraint by Congress, courts, media, public, whatever.

And on the other hand, the people who have this unrestrained power are crazy.
Not entirely, but they have crazy beliefs.

And the question is what then, what can we do about this? We are heading
towards an insane operation. It is not certain. It is likely. ] I want to try
to be realistic myself here, to encourage us to do what we must do, what is
needed to be done with the full recognition of the reality. Nothing is
impossible.

What Im talking about in the way of a police state, in the way of an attack on
Iran is not certain. Nothing is certain, actually. However, I think it is
probable, more likely than not, that in the next 15, 16 months of this
administration we will see an attack on Iran. Probably. Whatever we do.

And ] we will not succeed in moving Congress probably, and Congress probably
will not stop the president from doing this. And thats where were heading.
Thats a very ugly, ugly prospect.

However, I think its up to us to work to increase that small perhaps " anyway
not large " possibility and probability to avert this within the next 15
months, aside from the effort that we have to make for the rest of our lives.


Restoring the Republic

Getting back the constitutional government and improving it will take a long
time. And I think if we dont get started now, it wont be started under the next
administration.

Getting out of Iraq will take a long time. Averting Iran and averting a further
coup in the face of a 9/11, another attack, is for right now, it cant be put
off. It will take a kind of political and moral courage of which we have seen
very little]

We have a really unusual concentration here and in this audience, of people who
have in fact changed their lives, changed their position, lost their friends to
a large extent, risked and experienced being called terrible names, traitor,
weak on terrorism " names that politicians will do anything to avoid being
called.

How do we get more people in the government and in the public at large to
change their lives now in a crisis in a critical way? How do we get Nancy
Pelosi and Harry Reid for example? What kinds of pressures, what kinds of
influences can be brought to bear to get Congress to do their jobs? It isnt
just doing their jobs. Getting them to obey their oaths of office.

I took an oath many times, an oath of office as a Marine lieutenant, as an
official in the Defense Department, as an official in the State Department as a
Foreign Service officer. A number of times I took an oath of office which is
the same oath office taken by every member of Congress and every official in
the United States and every officer in the United States armed services.

And that oath is not to a Commander in Chief, which is not mentioned. It is not
to a fuehrer. It is not even to superior officers. The oath is precisely to
protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Now that is an oath I violated every day for years in the Defense Department
without realizing it when I kept my mouth shut when I knew the public was being
lied into a war as they were lied into Iraq, as they are being lied into war in
Iran.

I knew that I had the documents that proved it, and I did not put it out then.
I was not obeying my oath which I eventually came to do.

Ive often said that Lt. Ehren Watada " who still faces trial for refusing to
obey orders to deploy to Iraq which he correctly perceives to be an
unconstitutional and aggressive war " is the single officer in the United
States armed services who is taking seriously in upholding his oath.

The president is clearly violating that oath, of course. Everybody under him
who understands what is going on and there are myriad, are violating their
oaths. And thats the standard that I think we should be asking of people.


Congressional Courage

On the Democratic side, on the political side, I think we should be demanding
of our Democratic leaders in the House and Senate " and frankly of the
Republicans " that it is not their highest single absolute priority to be
reelected or to maintain a Democratic majority so that Pelosi can still be
Speaker of the House and Reid can be in the Senate, or to increase that
majority.

Im not going to say that for politicians they should ignore that, or that they
should do something else entirely, or that they should not worry about that.

Of course that will be and should be a major concern of theirs, but theyre
acting like its their sole concern. Which is business as usual. We have a
majority, lets not lose it, lets keep it. Lets keep those chairmanships.
Exactly what have those chairmanships done for us to save the Constitution in
the last couple of years?

I am shocked by the Republicans today that I read in the Washington Post who
yesterday threatened a filibuster if we ] get back habeas corpus. The ruling
out of habeas corpus with the help of the Democrats did not get us back to
George the First it got us back to before King John 700 years ago in terms of
counter-revolution.

We need some way, and Ann Wright has one way, of sitting in, in Conyers office
and getting arrested. Ray McGovern has been getting arrested, pushed out the
other day for saying the simple words swear him in when it came to testimony.

I think weve got to somehow get home to them [in Congress] that this is the
time for them to uphold the oath, to preserve the Constitution, which is worth
struggling for in part because its only with the power that the Constitution
gives Congress responding to the public, only with that can we protect the
world from mad men in power in the White House who intend an attack on Iran.

And the current generation of American generals and others who realize that
this will be a catastrophe have not shown themselves " they might be people who
in their past lives risked their bodies and their lives in Vietnam or
elsewhere, like [Colin] Powell, and would not risk their career or their
relation with the president to the slightest degree.

That has to change. And its the example of people like those up here who
somehow brought home to our representatives that they as humans and as citizens
have the power to do likewise and find in themselves the courage to protect
this country and protect the world.  Thank you.


[Daniel Ellsberg is author of Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon
Papers.]

                                 *
_________________________________


In addition to the books he's written, Ellsberg
has been active in assisting and supporting whistleblowers over the years,
especially during the Bush Reich.  He has been particularly active in
encouraging whistleblowers to come forward to help prevent an unprovoked
military attack on Iran, including founding a website dedicated to
whistleblowers.  For more on his recent activity, see this

           Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin: Radio REscue net operations BBS       (1:116/901)