Text 9359, 93 rader
Skriven 2009-02-22 12:37:02 av Dan Ceppa (1:138/666.0)
     Kommentar till en text av Earl Croasmun
Ärende: Waterboarding
=====================
-> On 22 Feb 09  02:43:20, Earl Croasmun got back to Dan Ceppa 
-> Re: Waterboarding

 ~>  EC> We both know what "waterboarding" is.  It is a vague term that gets
 ~>  EC> applied to a variety of things.  Some time Bob Sakowski posted an
 
 ~> A vague thing?  

 EC> A vague WORD, and your use illustrates that fact when you stretch the
 EC> same word to cover anything from pouring a glass of water over plastic

The net result is that the person believes that they are being drowned.  

 ~> Every have someone do something similar to you?  

 EC> On a few occasions I have been close to drowning.  Unpleasant, but not
 EC> as painful as the beatings and bamboo and lit cigarette treatments that
 EC> Yukio Asano was involved in.

Was someone forcing your head under water?  

 ~> "Severe pain or suffering" is just a matter of degree.  Forced pain or 
 ~> suffering is the definition of torture.  

 EC> Your definition is absurd.  If you really believe that ANY suffering

It's the definition given in the Geneva Conventions.  

 EC> of any type to any degree is "torture," then you make the term
 EC> meaningless. 

The term is quite clear.  


 EC> From the Convention Against Torture: "the term "torture" means any act
 EC> by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is
 EC> intentionally inflicted on a person"  The European Court of Human
 EC> Rights went on to adjudicate on exactly this question when Britain was
 EC> accused of torturing IRA prisoners.  The Court rightly acknowledged
 EC> that the most relevant question was precisely one of DEGREE of pain and
 EC> suffering. 

Let's see how well that turned out:  

border IRA activity.  The case was referred to the European Court of Human
Rights for adjudication.  Ireland v. United Kingdom was the first inter-state
case ever brought before the European Court.  Reviewing the evidence in
December 1977, the court found the five techniques to be "cruel," inhuman and
degrading" and thus breaches of the convention but stopped short of describing
them as torture.  Britain's international image was nevertheless greatly
tarnished by this finding and the British government was ultimately obliged to
give "a solemn undertaking" to the court that the five techniques would never
again be used on British soil which they have not.



Try this instead:  

BEGINNING OF CAPTIVITY

Article 17

Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only
his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental,
personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information.  If he
wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of
the privileges accorded to his rank or status.

Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its
jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card
showing the owner's surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or
serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth.  The identity card
may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the
owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict
may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces.  As far as
possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm.  and shall be issued in
duplicate.  The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon
demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be
inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind
whatever.  Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened,
insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any
kind. 
-----

Collective punishment for individual acts, corporal punishments, imprisonment
in premises without daylight and, in general, any form of torture or cruelty,
are forbidden.


--- OMX/Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: Soundly on the Fault Line (1:138/666.0)