Text 9692, 160 rader
Skriven 2009-02-28 15:07:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av JOHN FITZGERALD
Ärende: DOING ENEMY'S FOOTWORK
==============================
JF>>   Empty claim.  Show your sources.  This is obviously a
JF>>   partisan beef that only attempts to give weight to it
JF>>   with the spurious claim that operations were not
JF>>   performed 100% correctly, 100% of the time. Remember, the
JF>>   total number at Gitmo was around 300.  Seems you want us

BK>>   The total was over 700. It's down to around 300.

JF>>   to believe they drove around with Buses and just rounded
JF>>   up Muslims for no reason whatsoever.

BK>>   Some were, more likely in trucks,
BK>>   and for a bounty,

 JF>   If there was a bounty, then they had to of been wanted
 JF>   for something.

 *THEY* were not wanted at all. The bounty was for anyone
 involved with Al Qaeda or the Taliban. No evidence needed. They
 turned in someone they claimed was Al Qaeda, or Taliban, and
 they collected the bounty.

BK>>   or revenge, or to eliminate a rival.

 JF>   Sounds like more heresy fed to you by the inmates who now
 JF>   know that the 'Get Bush' crowd will run with it, without

 No, John, demonstrated fact. Why to you think most of the
 original detainees have already been released.

 ...

BK>>  Not all the muslims in Gitmo were
BK>>  captured by American forces.

 JF>   Which neither helps your case ot mine.  Circumstantial

 It hurts your case big time.

 JF>   heresy that can be interpreted either way, depending on
 JF>   which party you're trying to get over on.  Partisan tug
 JF>   of war.  Not real debate.

 Clearly refuting your claims is part of real debate. Calling
 truth heresy is far more a condemnation of your position.

BK>>  Many were.   Many were turned in by their neighbors
BK>>  simply for the reward money.

 JF>   Says who? Those that were turned in?  Their
 JF>   lawyer/activist or the enemy informant with a law degree
 JF>   from 'Afghanistan University'?

 John, try to get up to date. Of the 385 current prisoners, 82
 have been cleared, but are still being held because the govt
 can't figure out where to send them. Can't send the Afghans
 back, the place is at war.

 Remember, I said there was a Chinese man who was a refugee from
 China in Afghanistan when he was captured? Turns out there are
 17 Chinese refugees at Gitmo. They were never involved in
 fighting in Afghanistan, but were refugees. As foreigners in
 Afghanistan they were suspected of being foreign fighters, but
 that was proven wrong. China considers them criminals because
 they oppose the govt of China. Which should be a plus from out
 point of view. They were all cleared for release years ago, but
 they are still being held.

 tinyurl.com/yt4agg

 Oh, and the pentagon has released a list of all detainees.

 Snipurl.com/detainees


JF>>    Now we're supposed to believe that they carted away
JF>>    anyone who was turned in by a phone call.  Baloney.
JF>>    Cite me one confirmed example.

BK>>    Uh... look it up. It was pretty common.

DC>>    There were few investigations before they
DC>>    were transfered to Gitmo.

JF>>    Says who?  The ACLU?  Bill Ayers?   C.A.I.R.?

BK>>    Try to catch up.

 Seems that this is becoming the fall back when someone
 fails to show a credible source/excerpt that nails it.

 John, you are years behind on this. It's no like we have
 obssessed over it for years. It was covered, published, and you
 should know about it. You aren't even arguing that you disagree,
 but that you know nothing about it at all. You would have to
 know about it if you kept up.

 There is no point in showing you evidence, if we do you just
 nitpick it to try to keep your arguement alive. If I show you
 their evidence was false you claim this could have happened, or
 that could have happened, with no evidence at all that it did.

 Once we show the orginal claims were not supported, and claim
 that there is an alternative explanation is up to you to prove.

 JF>   Seems as though if YOU make a CLAIM in a DEBATE
 JF>   conference you're supposed to back it up...as opposed to
 JF>   making a claim and expecting someone else to go fishing
 JF>   for what you have failed to provide.

 Yes, you do that for a change. Back up what you claimed.

 JF>   Dan makes a claim, you 2nd it, but neither of you have
 JF>   anything to show for here.

 I gave you a link to the 83 who have been cleared for release.

 Among them is the Algerian who was a waiter in England, he was
 accused of meeting with Bin Laden, then cleared for release, but
 Britain won't take him back. Also the Australian caught trying
 to escape from Afghanistan.

 There is an man of Indian decent who is a citizen of France. He
 was arrested driving across the border into Afghanistan, by
 Afghan police. He was identified as a Saudi, and he said that
 was due to being beaten by the Afghans who threatened to kill
 him if he didn't say he is Saudi. His name is Patel, which is
 Indian. The Saudi authorities verified he is not Saudi.

 He is on the Wapo list, but not the pentagon list, but the info
 I gave above is from the Military Commission interview with him,
 as is most of the info I am giving her. The interviews are
 linked from the Washington post article.

 The Chinese were taken in Pakistan, after then fled Afghanistan,
 after their camp was bombed by the US. They were called illegal
 combatants, but they say they never saw an American, as their
 camp was bombed, not invaded, and they fled the bombs.

 The Washington post list of detainees gives the status of some
 of them, including the ones above. The pentagon list is just a
 list of the detainees, no status given.

 snipurl.com/detaineeswapo

 Of the 759 listed, the govt only claims 18 are known to
 returning to anti-US activity, some of which is propaganda
 broadcasting, not fighting.

 And the above is enough evidence, many of those at Gitmo were
 not fighting the US.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... My folks went to R'lyeh and all I got was this cephalopod
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