Text 81, 200 rader
Skriven 2004-09-13 22:09:26 av BOB KLAHN (1:135/382)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB LAWRENCE
Ärende: Fantastic fantasy!
==========================
BL>> You can never find a Robin Hood when you need one - tax is the
BL>> correct tool to move wealth from rich and poor... steal from
BL>> the rich and give to the poor.

BK>> Actually, I disagree with that. Full employment is better. But
BK>> that's a long discussion.

 BL>  Employment, working for someone else, only makes the
 BL>  someone-else rich.

 I believe one of the greatest causes of our current economic
 problems is the drive by so many to become rich, rather than to
 earn a good living.

 All wealth is produced by those who actually produce some
 "thing". Those who get rich all too often do so by controlling
 the wealth produced by others.

 BL>  An overview shows that most wealth
 BL>  comes from "exploiting" the ones doing the actual work. I
 BL>  have no problem with that exploitation. People driven to
 BL>  make a profit out of their fellow man do great good for
 BL>  society overall, but they need to be taxed to even it out
 BL>  a bit.

 I find your interpretation a bit screwed up.

BL>> The rich want it all, and that is the correct attitude for
BL>> creating wealth

BK>> Actually, it's not. The rich, all too often, do not create
BK>> wealth, they just manage to get control of it. I do not see
BK>> that Bill Gates has actually inovated much of anything. He just
BK>> incorporates other people's ideas into his system. That makes
BK>> him rich, but I suspect, in the long run it discourages real
BK>> innovation.

 BL>  I agree in theory, but in reality innovation rarely
 BL>  creates wealth unless it can be stolen, refined, made
 BL>  practical, and marketed... all of which need capital. I

 Which does not dispute what I said in the least.

 BL>  agree that many inventors are discouraged by the meagre
 BL>  return for their work, and refuse to sell out to a
 BL>  entrepreneur like Gates... but they don't count.

 Yeah, they do. They produce much of the advancement of our
 culture. Very often they do bring their products to market, then
 they are put out of business by such as Gates, who take over
 their inovation.

 BL>   No wealth
 BL>  results. It's not fair, but life isn't and especially,
 BL>  wealth isn't.

 Wealth does result. The concentration in the hands of Bill Gates
 has little to do with the actual production of wealth. Pretty
 much everything he does comes from someone else's original
 ideas. His disc compression software is a prime example. Stacker
 was the innovator, and they had a good business, producing
 wealth. Gates stole their idea. Gates lost the lawsuit, but he
 then put investment into developing his own software. It was no
 better, but it came with DOS, so he put Stacker, the real wealth
 producer, out of business.

 BL>  They're a pack of thieves and robbers...
 BL>  rich robbers, hence the need for taxation to equalise it a
 BL>  little.

 Taxation is an unreliable and inefficient method of
 redistributing wealth.
 ...

BK>> Real Audio was, AFAICS, the real innovator in web broadcasting,
BK>> but I see RA going down against the immitators, esp MSoft.

 BL>  Unfortunately, the way of the world. My guess is that the
 BL>  guy who invented the wheel was screwed too... probably by
 BL>  someone named Ford.

 But the inventor of the Wheel was the real wealth producer.
 ...

 BL>  silly. The officeers of companies should face the same
 BL>  penalties as the rest of us... not hide behind the company
 BL>  or the bureau.

 Agreed.

BL>> personal freedom... and that includes a prosperous economy best
BL>> left to big business and those driven to be rich.

BK>> They will suck the blood from the small businesses. Like
BK>> Wallmart does. And they do it through imports, and, in this
BK>> country, pay scales so low the workers collect welfare
BK>> benefits.

 BL>  I don't agree with subsidising small business. If they
 BL>  can't compete then let them get out of the kitchen. What

 The best way to subsidize small business is through a prosperous
 economy with low unemployment.

 ...

 BL>  Oz was when the Taxation Office assessed a tax avoidance
 BL>  bill of $250M against our richest man, and then years
 BL>  later having spent $20 million in legal fees, he settled
 BL>  by paying them $200,000!

 Which is why I say taxation is an unreliable method for
 redistributing wealth.

 BL>  In my own case they sent an unfair bill for $1,200 and I
 BL>  paid (as they knew I would), rather than fight it in
 BL>  court. The law is mocked while big companies (and

 Got me for $900. On a bill for my wife back in '95. How the hell
 are we gonna fight that?

 ...

BK>> Good. I can go out the back door of the plant on break, sit on
BK>> one of the benches out there, and a smoker sits on the other,
BK>> 20 feet away, and I can still smell his smoke, and it bothers
BK>> me.

 BL>  How do you feel about bushfires (wild fires?) and

 I think they should be stopped, however, that is another problem
 entirely.

 BL>  wood-burning in winter?

 I think it's ok in remote areas, or in areas where you are no
 where near you neighbor. However, we have some dolt in this city
 who stinks up the neighborhood with his wood burning every
 winter.

 BL>  Or do you believe that it is the
 BL>  tobacco plant alone that has carcinogens when burned?

 I object to having smoke inflicted on me because I don't like
 it. The carcinogens should be a crime.

BK>> small child and leave that child afraid of dogs. Keep the dogs
BK>> under control.

 BL>  It amazes me that you can say that, and advocate the
 BL>  freedom to bear arms! ROFL! I'd rather take my chances
 BL>  with a psychotic poodle than a psycho with an M-16.

 Since the law requires checks by gun dealers to insure that
 psychos don't get M-16s, that's another matter.

BL>> that *all* dogs can turn vicious, which is silly.

BK>> No, it's not. I've seen it.

 BL>  What, *all* of them? When did you see my dog turn vicious?
 BL>  I must have missed you standing in the corner.

 I've seen dogs that were friendly and playful turn vicious.
 That's enough to say all dogs *CAN* turn vicious. AFAIC.

BK>> Hell, any but the very small dogs are bigger than a cat, and
BK>> cats can do real damage.

 BL>  ROFL! A trained attack cat! This is going from the sublime
 BL>  to the ridiculous, Bob. Are you having a lend of me, or
 BL>  what?

 I take it you don't have much experience with cats. Try to take
 one down from a tree when it doesn't want to come down. Be sure
 to wear padding. Those claws really work.

BK>> Would you allow mice to run free around your children?

 BL>  I'd rather do that than put them on a leash. People would
 BL>  giggle at me.

 I just step on them.

 ...

BK>> The pendulum swings. I guarantee, if it goes back it will go
BK>> too far.

 BL>  I don't think so. Law only seems to go one way... more and
 BL>  more restriction for better and better reasons.

 Like the assault weapons ban, in this country, that expires
 tonight?

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... He jests at scars who never felt a wound.
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