Text 528, 198 rader
Skriven 2005-03-11 07:16:44 av WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av JIM HOLSONBACK
Ärende: Plz Listen to this
==========================
And yet you persist.

-> Promise card is still in this machine here, and  -
-> After a number of experiments, with no Promise drivers loaded, no
-> Winders running, and etc., on both onboard and Promise card IDE
-> connectors, even with onboard IDE ports disabled, Promise card BIOS not
-> loaded during POST, and etc. - -  The _ONLY_ way I can replicate your
-> symptom of no CDROM drive LED blinking, and no CDROM drive tray eject,
-> is by plugging in the IDE cable from the CDROM drive onto either the
-> onboard connector or the connector on the Promise card _backwards_.

How'd you manage that inquiring minds want to know?
Not only did I wear my glasses and use a strong light
to manually verify pin 1 on both IDE channels where it's
PRINTED on the card to align with the red strip.
I ALSO noted the male  IDE cable connectors were
KEYED with a double raised line that fit only into 
the matching slot in the female IDE connector.

I ALWAYS check thrice, except on those rare and unfortunate
circumstances I single source my information sources.
Even here I checked the Promise site as well and their documentation
does not support your claims for the I/O card.

-> With ribbon cable from the CDROM drive connected with proper polarity, I
-> _always_ got blinks during POST, and tray ejection whenever button was
-> pushed, on both onboard and Promise card connectors.

Yet the documents on Promises own web site does not support this claim,
odd.

How do I define hardware ATAPI support you asked the last time I
declined to reply?
I define hardware ATAPI support as supporting an ATAPI device
in hardware allowing the CD drive to either boot the system or read the
drive operating system independent.
NOT requiring the native Windows drivers or Promise drivers
as clearly spelled out in the Promise documentation.

My OLD Promise card did this in the 486 and the documents
for the Belkins I/O card also specifically mention this.
The documentation on the Ultra66 card ommits
any such mention.

IOW's a fully compliant I/O card that completely replaces the existing
I/O card _or_ extends another 4 channels if one includes slave drives.

-> Only conclusion I can draw - - you had the ribbon cable from your CDROM
-> drive plugged into the Promise card _backwards_ when you observed the
-> above noblink/noeject symptoms.

It it IMPOSSIBLE to plug the cable in backwards as above.
Not only visually inspected the mating connectors have plastic molded
keys that prevent plugging them in backwards.

Your "only conclusion" is WRONG.
You just have to keep digging yourself in deeper
don't you?

-> No matter how this ends up, even though my patience is now being worn
-> thin - I think no way I can be accused by you or anyone else of not
-> continuing to _try_ to help you thru your current difficulties.

My patience would recover IF you'd stop trying to blame what's 
a personal disater for one of limited means on ME
for following YOUR directions.
Just let it drop, my temper will improve and I'll eventually 
move on when I can afford to replace the hardware.

But no,l here you are speculating I plugged the cable in backwards,
something that's absolutely impossible without physically
breaking things.

How do you suggest I plug in the IDE cabble in backwards?
With a sledge hammer perhaps?
What about all the electronics semiconductor junctions
that would be destroyed by reverse bias currents?

Why would my LG CD-ROM drive continue to operate off the
existing motherboard I/O if I'd toasted it as you're suggesting? 


->  -> Of course, the card _does_ support ATAPI devices, _after_ the
-> -> Windows
->  -> driver is loaded. (I know this, because I did it here).
      
Goody, you did it there, WITH DRIVERS and not using
an H.P. first release Win 98 OEM CD with it's defective over 64 Gig
fdisk and format executables. 
The very same issues I was concerned about and expressed that concern
to you repeatedly.
You replied private e-mail "you're so cautious it's borderline
paranoia."

Now you're suggesting I plugged the IDE dcable in backwards.
Well not only are the connectors KEYED in this H.P. Pavilion
but the Promise card's connector is keyed AND fully enclosed
in a plastic barrier that completely eliminates any possibility
of "plugging it in backwards." 

->  WC> How many times must I go over this?
->  WC> I've a Windows OEM software CD here.

->  -> Back at that
->  -> time, we both thought the card might give CDROM support using the M$
->  -> DOS-based CDROM drivers (it does not), and I was _trying_ to encourage
->  -> you to give that a try, 

You may have thoyught this, I never did because it's not in their
documents.
You convinced me it couldn't hurt so it was worth a try, I did,
and now my hard drive isn't recognized by ANYTHING.

->  WC> Don't claim I EVER had any idea the card had ANY hardware ATAPI
->  WC> support, it's not in the docs and I've said that repeatedly.

->  WC> I elected to believe you against my better judgement.
->  WC> I even said I usually do not usually do not proceed with an unknown
->  WC> practice unless I get TWO opinions from two independent sources.
->  WC> You said "I was borderline paranoia" about proceeding.
->  WC> This time I violated my usual verification  practice and I paid the
->  WC> price.

->  -> as a "simple hardware check."  _That_ is what
->  -> you were bordering on paranoia about, back then.

No, it was the OEM first release CD and it's behavior as well
as the 65 Gig hard drive that had me concerned and I repeatedly   
stated that to you.

->  WC> Linux did a simple hardware check and caused no difficulty at all.
->  WC> The Windows 98 OEM first release and they > 64 Gig drive
->  WC> I repeatedly expressed to you was a concern of mine you
->  WC> dismissed.

->  WC> I screw stuff up sometimes and when I do I ADMIT to it.
->  WC> This time I relying on your assurances had help SCREWING up
->  WC> against my better instincts and "paranoia."

->  WC> I killed a drive one time with static outside of the machine by
->  WC> brushing my elbow into a monitor but this is the VERY FIRST I've killed
->  WC> one with software and it was on your advice.

->  ->  TW>> But the Western Digital Diagnostic program, OR the LINUX program
->  ->  TW>> soemone mentioned can recover the Drive by zeroing out the MBR.

->  ->  WC> No if Linux can't see the drive.
->  ->  WC> Wrote Roy's command down but if fdisk -l and fdisk /dev/hde fails
->  ->  WC> I don't see the dd command working either.

->  -> For HDD connected to the Promise card, I think the main concern is
->  -> whether the BIOS on the card autodetects the drive, as shown on a splash
->  -> screen during POST. If the HDD is scrogged so badly that the card no
->  -> longer autodetects the HDD, I think you will need to take the HDD to a
->  -> newer machine, and if the BIOS on that machine will autodetect the drive
->  -> and its CHS parameters, then may be able to zero it out and proceed to
->  -> fdisk, repartition and format it.  Since old Win98 FDISK scrogged the
->  -> drive, I'd start with the new Win98 FDISK, rather than the Linux
->  -> version, but that is just me. YMMV (and it usually does).
            
No newer machine required.
Your knowledge of software, hardware ATAPI compliance and the 64 Gig
Windows first release 98 edition is flawed.

Linux saw the hard drive just fine, perfectly in fact...
Until I loaded Windows on your advice.

->  WC> There is no more mileage on the drive, it's toast and Windows
->  WC> rendered it so.
->  WC> NO MORE WINDOWS PERIOD.
->  WC> What BIOS on the Ultra card?
->  WC> It translates to the 137 Gig barrier and supports Windows >
->  WC> than 64 Gig drives ( with software drivers) and NOTHING more.
->  WC> IT is NOT hardware ATAPI compliant.

->  ->  WC> Drive's still in the machine but power and cable
-> unconnected.
->  ->  WC> I'd need to slip the I/O card in again too to try again.

->  ->  WC> Due to my circumstances all this must be done laying on my back
->  ->  WC> with the computer on a roll cart and a light shining into the case.

->  -> So why not make it easy on yourself, and stop taking the card in and
->  -> out, in and out, to the point of recently starting to fret yourself
->  -> about yet another Waynesworld concern - worrying that you may be wearing
->  -> out your PCI slot?

->  WC> Not to worry, that card is never going near my machine again EVER
->  WC> for any reason.
->  WC> It's not needed for Linux and I'll never run Windows again
->  WC> except for 3.1 which happily co-exists on my lowly 486
->  WC> with a primitive Linux release.
 
No just be nice, go talk to someone else and let me chill out will you?
Were it not for my limited resorces this would already be forgotten.
Let it die and spare me the grief.
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