Text 16720, 98 rader
Skriven 2006-03-22 10:32:50 av Jeff Guerdat (1:229/2000)
  Kommentar till text 16686 av MARTIN ATKINS (1:123/140)
Ärende: need time?
==================
MARTIN ATKINS -> JEFF GUERDAT wrote:
 JG>>> However, it didn't stick with me that a VM has no contact
 JG>>> with the local hardware and that it couldn't see, much less mount, a
 JG>>> local partition.

 MA>> Hmm. I've used VNC and perhaps it's not the same but if you where
 MA>> running Linux on the fully partitioned machine you couldn't
 MA>> umount the disk because the client would need it. I think however
 MA>> you are probably talking about the RAID devices so i can't help
 MA>> you there.

 JG>> VNC is simply a viewer into another computer's OS - think of using X
 JG>> windows across the network.

 MA> X windows is not XP. Why confuse the issue? You are talking about a
 MA> VNC across a network. A VNC connection should act as if you are on
 MA> board depending on your permissions.

I never spoke of VNC - you brought it up although there was no connection with
what I was trying to explain.  I was just trying to solidify in your mind the
difference between a virtual machine and your reference to VNC.  VNC is much
closer to X than a VM will ever be.  I'm only concerned with the VM and how it
needs to access resources.

 JG>> VMware (and similar) actually run the OS
 JG>> as a process under your own computer's OS (Linux on Windows, Windows on
 JG>> Linux, Linux on Linux and Windows on Windows). Only one OS at a time,

 MA> Yes!! So if Win can't see Linux partitions it won't see them in a
 MA> VMC session. A VNC session using Linux to Linux will but by using
 MA> RAID devices you are adding another layer of complexity.

Drop VNC, please - it has no bearing.  The RAID also has no bearing, especially
since it's running on a laptop that has no RAID.  The VM is
hardware-independent and doesn't care what it's running on.  The VMware player
does, of course, but an XP VM running under Linux has no idea that's happening.
 VNC, RAID, etc. are not part of the discussion.

 JG>> given today's hadware and software, can control the hardware.  A
 JG>> virtual machine *THINKS* it's controlling something but underlying
 JG>> software is just telling the OS what it wants to hear.

 MA> I don't know about VMware but in princible a Linux VNC connection
 MA> importing a screen session from a Win machine should be able to
 MA> to use the hardware on the remote as if you were at the keyboard or
 MA> the mouse.

I suggest that you visit VMware at http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/ where
you can download the player (pretty lightweight) as well as a test copy of
anything you like.  Run these and discover what you're missing, both in
experience as well as utility.  Again, VNC has no bearing - these sessions are
running on the same machine, at the same time as the OS you're used to running.
There's no viewer to another machine - it *IS* the *SAME* machine.

 JG>> Hence, a VM cannot control the local hard disks since it thinks
 JG>> it's running on something else.

 MA> Why would you use VMware on your local machine to comunicate
 MA> with it's self? You call in another consul to deal with local
 MA> conditions. A Win to Linux session won't work on Linux partitions
 MA> "period". A Linux to remote Linux will do every thing possible
 MA> to stop you for security reasons. It can be done but that is
 MA> a matter of permission.

Imagine you have one computer and access to no others.  You load an OS and apps
and off you go - until you find the need to run a different app that's
available for only a different OS.  You could repartition and create a dual
boot but then you have to shut down your main OS just to run one app.  Not very
convenient.

So, you run that other OS/app as a virtual machine.  No repartitioning, loading
or rebooting.

 MA> You cannot boot Linux and XP on one machine at the same time
 MA> without a serious train crash.
....
 MA> For the time being you can't run two operating systems on one machine.
 MA> You are either running a server on your system or client. You can't
 MA> have both. That doesn't mean you can't provide say HTTP service to
 MA> your local system it just means you can't effectively run Linux and
 MA> Win at the same time.

There's no sense in continuing this conversation until you understand what a
virtual machine is and how it operates.  Please download a small test case as I
mention above and try it out.  Once you have that understanding you'll have a
fuller view of what I was trying to do and why, even if you don't see a
practical need for it.  Once you've done this, I'll be glad to pick up the
conversation.

-- 
Jeff Guerdat

Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the
illiteracy level of our children are appalling.
                                                 Dubya

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