Text 10134, 94 rader
Skriven 2007-01-14 05:12:59 av Jeffrey MacHott (13554.babylon5)
  Kommentar till text 10111 av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (13531.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Suspension of disbelief - an open debate
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Vorlonagent wrote:
> But back to Starship Troopers.  Wouldn't it have been nice to have some 
> starfighters in the air keeping those flying bugs off Our Heroes' backs? 
> (Technically CAS is strafing or dropping bombs.  We see this *once*)

Actually, it's only CAS when there are friendlies close enough to 
necessitate them ducking while you drop stuff on the bad guys.  What 
those guys did, I think, would be referred to as "Air Interdiction", but 
the only difference to the pilot is how much "Accuracy" matters.

> At once point, we see Johnny Rico shoots a handheld "nuke" down a bug 
> tunnel.  It must've been the only one on the planet because nobody else used 
> one at any point in the movie.  They apparently also issued Rico the only 
> hand-grenade on the planet too (he uses it aganst the bug flame thrower). 
> Both weapons would have come in handy in that "Fort Apache" seige.  When you 
> have wall-to-wall bugs like that, you can toss out explosives to marvelous 
> effect.  But all the stupid humans had was varying flavors of machine gun.

Actually, the nuke bazookas get used twice, once by Rico and Ace in the 
first battle to take out a couple of Farters (one of the only examples 
of teamwork between fighting branches we saw in the movie), and once 
later by Rico against the Bug Hole.  The hand grenades we see used (By 
Rico against the Tanker, by Dizzy against another Tanker, and by Sugar 
against the majority of the Bug Army at the end) were the projectiles 
for the bazooka, apparently designed to have an option between a contact 
fuse and a timed fuse.  That said, yeah, like the fighter bombers, not 
used in nearly as many cases as it would have been mighty handy for.

> Replace the Mobile Infantry with either the Allied or Axis forces from WWII 
> and the results would be a whole lot better because you'd see a team effort. 
> There'd be bombardment of the landing zone before an attempted invasion and 
> bombardment of enemy troop concentrations during the invasion.  There's be 
> airplanes overhead to keep the flying bugs busy (a piston-engine plane could 
> keep up with the flying bugs).  If/When the ground forces clear enough space 
> for there to be an actual backfield, transports start landing dropping off 
> tanks and artillary as well as fresh supplies of ammunition.  You run it 
> like a machine, which is why the military puts such a huge emphasis on 
> following orders. If the machaine goes *spoing*, people die.  Lots of them. 
> It's like that credit card commercial where the guy pays cash and brings the 
> whole restaurant to a crashing halt.  Only with much more blood.

I maintain that neither the Axis or Allies would be able to do much 
against the bugs, because they lack any spacelift capacity to GET to 
Klendathu.  of course, it was that same spacelift capability that 
allowed the Federation to push into Bug territory, starting the whole 
war to begin with, so either army would still come out better in the 
end. <G>

> The Mobile Infantry was a one-trick pony and the trick was poorly adapted to 
> the enemy.  For all intents and purposes, they had one unit type: gropo. 
> The gropo had one weapon: his machine gun and used only one tactic: frontal 
> assault.  There was more variety available to a Napoleonic army, even a 
> Greek or Roman army.  The bugs had their gropos, air support, flame 
> throwers...all kinds of stuff.  Is it any wonder the humans got trashed so 
> badly throughout the movie?  That kind of singleminded bloodletting is what 
> both sides did to themselves in World War I.

Yaknow, it never did occur to me how much better equipped the bugs were 
for specialized warfare, but you're right.  They have air support, foot 
soldiers, engineers, tanks, Air Defense Artillery, even 
Generals/Interrogators. The only things the humans have in response are 
airlift/spacelift, some apparently limited air strike capacity, Generals 
of dubious value, and Doogie Howser, SS. (Mind you, nobody can stand 
before the fearsome might of Doogie Howser, it's just a fact of nature).

> The one gripe I'd add was that during the first invasion the Earth ships 
> arranged themselves in neat little close-packed formations.  And got knocked 
> out of the sky by the "farter" bugs, collided with each other for further 
> damage.    They did the same dame thing in the second invasion and had the 
> same results.  What's the definition of "insanity...?"

Actually, the fleet FUBAR was one of the few things they pulled directly 
from the book.  The idea, according to the book, was to jump out in 
formation, do an orbital pound-and-drop and be clear of the kill zone 
before the Bugs could rally and return fire.  Instead, they jumped out, 
and the entire formation turned into a Charlie Foxtrot when a couple of 
cruisers collided (the Ypres and the Valley Forge, I think, I can't 
remember, but IIRC you CAN read "Ypres" on the hull of one of the ships 
that collided).

The main difference there was that in the book, the collision occured at 
the very start of the battle, as Rico's company was dropping, while in 
the movie, they at least had the excuse that one of the ships was 
crippled by enemy fire and out of control.  The second time around, they 
seemed to do far better, with the bugs not shooting at them until AFTER 
they dropped the troopers, though we never see what they did differently 
(other than not actively running into each other).

-- 
--Jeffrey MacHott

"Sola bona lingua est mortua lingua"
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