Text 12272, 127 rader
Skriven 2007-02-15 18:24:24 av Rob Perkins (15715.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: Cath0licism and Creati=nism
=======================================
On 2/15/07 3:05 PM, in article h8k9t2d5ibd940n9rjv1ettsosng3en14d@4ax.com,
"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote:

>> There is no denying the difference Social Security and Medicare have made
>> for the welfare of the nation as a whole. I pay those taxes gladly and
>> without a lot of interest in changing the basic idea.
> 
> It would be so simple to extend Medicare to everyone . . . the fact
> that we don't, that a few greedy special interests can block just
> about any worthy legislation, is an excellent example of what I find
> so frustrating about today's politics.

Medicare is geared toward care for the elderly, so the formularies and
treatment plans are also optimized for that population. It's also been
claimed by people I know that the extra cost not paid by Medicare is
reflected in costs charged to everyone else.

>> I think my case is still valid, if we push the time frame into 60 years or
>> so.
> 
> Well, the improvement is continuous.

The cost has been increasing faster than a linear rate. Since it's possible
to do more, more is done. Tort abuses have guaranteed that noone will be
offered anything but the latest care. I have the hospital statement from my
very first stay, 'way back when I was one day old. The cost to deliver a
baby then, adjusted into today's dollars, is a third of what it is now.

> True of everything, of course. What I've seen for the most part is
> unquestioning hoo-haw about the benefits of free markets and
> globalization. That's being countered by talk of outsourcing and the
> like. Unfortunately, in a sound-bite world, it's difficult to get a
> substantive argument, of the sort an economist might make, into the
> public sphere.

Gotta teach the kids to read and think, and invest our hopes there.

>>> I tend to think the "experience" thing is a stand-in for "Hmmm, can we
>>> really trust a black dude not to screw up?"
>> 
>> Not in my case. And for what it's worth, there was significant concern about
>> Clinton's slickness, and his integrity.
> 
> Wasn't suggesting that you thought that way.

I didn't have that impression, sorry. If "experience" really is the
offensive stand-in you imply, then the euphemism offends me. Of course, the
claims by the civil rights leaders that Obama is not an "African American"
are also so far beyond the pale that I wonder whether those people should
ever lead us. (That is, it's blatant offensive fallacy to make the claim,
just because Obama's daddy wasn't forced to emigrate at knifepoint three
centuries ago. People who reason that way are not inclusive liberals.)

> Don't you think the concern about Clinton was justified? I'm not
> talking about the Republican smears, but the fact that he did lie and
> perjure himself. I voted for him twice, but never without misgivings.

Felt the same way about Bush, myself, both times. But I'd lay a wager that
in hindsight I feel worse than you do! :-D

> Don't know much about Romney.

The fact that a conservative Mormon was electable in Massachusetts at all
*ought* to speak volumes about his possible appeal. Smart, articulate,
capable of compromise without stomping much on principle, as though he
operated from principle without letting the ideals prevent incremental
progress. That's my impression today.

(He's Mormon, as am I. So is the Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid. So is
Orrin Hatch of Utah. But I don't get the same positivism from them. Hatch
was completely unelectable in 2000.)

But, again, none of that means much at all to the South, it seems.

> I'm of two minds about Giuliani. On one
> hand, I think, as I said, that he could be a great president. On the
> other, I don't think this is the time for even a moderate Republican,
> because I think the country is ready for a liberal phase -- there's a
> huge backlog of necessary changes, such as universal health care,
> carbon limits, a more balanced approach to globalization, more
> sensible taxation, etc.

I don't have the impression that Giuliani would be opposed to making any of
those changes. And with a moderate Republican in the White House, unattached
to the worst of the neoconservative record in a way McCain is not, perhaps
we'd still get some of that.

Mostly, though, I'm thinking of Republicans who are capable of winning over
overwhelmingly Democratic areas, such as NYC and Massachusetts. Of a person
who could let the moderate side of the Republicans take center stage.

And Romney (and his Dem Commonwealth assembly) got universal health care
done, though it remains to be seen how successful the MA efforts will be in
the long run. 

>> And anyone except *maybe* Clinton or McCain would have a chance at obviating
>> "culture war", simply by willing to listen to all factions and incorporate
>> good ideas from every direction, something desperately missing from the
>> current administration and the last Congress.
> 
> Why do you rule out Clinton and McCain?

Strictly on the subject of ending a so-called "culture war": Because
O'Reilly has a stick up hisself about Clinton, thanks to the chumminess he
shares with Dick Morris. He would foment the masses against Hillary. McCain
is simply better as a Senator, in my opinion.

Though, he makes my rightist relatives hyper-angry, so maybe I don't object
to him all that much.

> Clinton has, if anything, been
> excessively wishy-washy, seemingly designing her opinions to meet the
> day's sentiments. McCain, while a conservative, is known as someone
> who crosses the aisle.

I think that impression of H. Clinton is a bit press-manufactured; a Senator
shares power with 99 others, and her job is about finding the compromise.
She's proven she's capable of learning stuff, but the fact is, Senators are
nigh-unto-unelectable, with Kennedy being one exception. That's another
reason why I'd rule out Clinton or McCain.

In all, though, I don't think it matters at all who the Elephants nominate
this time. The election is the Democrats' to lose.

Rob, giving away more of his personal politics than usual
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
 * Origin: Time Warp of the Future BBS - Home of League 10 (1:14/400)