Text 13425, 149 rader
Skriven 2007-04-11 02:56:14 av Vorlonagent (16870.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: Attn JMS: The five stages of grief and  "FALLEN SON: THE     DEATH 
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"Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:OtKdnbm1I7tGpYHbnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d@comcast.com...

> I learn more from my failures.  The more spectacular the failure might
> bring the most profound lesson.  Perhaps it's too difficult to reflect the
> consequences of such a lesson over a longer period of time?
>
> I suppose I'm underestimating the constraints of comics.

You are allowed to change and grow without limit.  Characters have and must 
have constraints on how much they do or they cease to be regognizable.

That said, you have a point.


>> You can't reflect what you can't or won't see.
>
> So who are the truly "blind" then?  It appears blind doesn't mean
> innocent, it means excessively cynical and bitter.

Depends on who's doing the defining.  One man's edgy intictment of american 
culture is another man's political screed masquerading as art.

Most of us think we're very clear-sighted.


>> I work in the video game trade.  I think there's a self-feeding cycle 
>> here and it isn't any one factor driving it.  There's a taste for it out 
>> there, so it is delivered.  The taste of greater stimulation is there as 
>> is the desire to compete for the dollars.
>>
>> Society is not allowed to restrian freedom of expression
>
> Sure it is, ask Imus.  You're not allowed to say things that
> are not PC without people calling for your job or your head.

Do you honestly think he's getting more than a slap on the wrist here?  The 
suits are packing him away till it drops off the news cycle and they can put 
him back on the air and pretend his little bout of name-calling never 
happened.


> Disclaimer: I've never listened to his show.

Me either.


>> ... so there are no  checks on the cycle.
>>
>>> Marvel had a vigilante in Daredevil 40 years ago. DC has Batman (or did 
>>> he die too?).
>>
>> He just had his back broken for a while.
>
> Did his character change after that experience?

Only in the sense of who wore the "Batman" mantle.  DC subbed in a harsher, 
nastier guy who previously went under the name Azrael.  I thought there was 
some promise to the character to be honest, but not as "Batman".  Not unlike 
Steel's relationship to Superman.  Bruce Wayne is the Batman

The last event to alter the Bruce Wayne Batman is "the Dark Knight Returns" 
and it wasn't an event in normal DC continuity so much as opening the door 
to a new way of viewing the Batman.  Kingdom Come has had a similar effect 
on Wonder Woman.


>>>> Steve Rogers is out of touch with his times, perhaps hard to write for. 
>>>> His is a world of right and wrong not shades of gray and the character 
>>>> isn't someone you can mold.  It's who he is.
>>>
>>> Steve Rogers is only out of touch with the times if he's written that 
>>> way. I don't recall him being stupid or unable to learn, simply that the 
>>> prism through which he sees the world was includes WW II as a frame of 
>>> reference. Why couldn't someone write a story in which he goes in 
>>> certain of his position, fighting for what he thinks is right, only to 
>>> find out the issue isn't right vs wrong?
>>
>> Been there, done that plenty of times.  The US government went as far as 
>> to strip him of the Captain America title for a while.
>
> How did his character change from that experience?

I don't know.  He adopted a different name, Tony Stark made him an 
adamantium shield.  I didn't follow the plot through.  The guy they 
installed as Captain America is, IIRC, know today as USAgent, but I could be 
crossing up my comics lore too.  I know the guy is still around.


>> It's what and who Stever Rogers represents that is the problem.
>
> America has to represent the bad guy these days?  I suppose that matches
> the news.

Many writers and artistic persons take a left-of-center view of the world. 
Current US leftism carries an undertone of condemnation toward the US.


>>>> There are potential politcial commentary overtones to Civil War and 
>>>> Captain America's death, also, as there is with much that passes for 
>>>> art right now.
>>>
>>> I don't know enough about Civil War to comment on it, other than to note
>>> than when I checked a Marvel newsgroup over the weekend to learn more
>>> about what's going on, it seemed almost universally condemned.
>>> Of course that could simply be the most vocal opinions being expressed.
>>
>> I've probably read about half the content.  No more, maybe less.  It's a 
>> piece of crap.  Poorly plotted, poorly executed, cynical as the day is 
>> long. Most of Marvel's stalwart heroes were warped badly by Civil War. 
>> Tony Stark as soulessly profiting off the money that changes hands over 
>> Civil War, Reed Richards voluntarily helping the US build a prison in the 
>> negative Zone for anyone who refused to register (a probable Guantanamo 
>> bay reference in my eyes since the sentence for refusing to register 
>> seems to be life--which conforms to some of the more colorful assertions 
>> concerning Guantanamo). Then there's the villains that get retreaded to 
>> hunt those who won't register, the really bad villains dismembering 
>> Skrulls in order to shaeshift enough to avoid the inevitable hords of 
>> government soldiers in armor.
>>
>> I won't gall you with the details of the Thor clone or the heroes the 
>> clone killed.
>
> I was told that Iron Man did that.  I have this image of Iron Man face 
> down
> on the ground, Thor's foot on his back, taking his hammer and using it 
> like a mallet and sending Stark's head flying...
>
> But that wouldn't exactly be noble... Damn.

See how easy it is?  How satisfying a dark fantasy can be?  It's good as a 
spice, but it's served as main course right now.


-- 
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent

"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."

"Spirituality without science has no mind.

Science without spirituality has no heart."

-Methuselah Jones
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