Text 14041, 141 rader
Skriven 2007-04-26 09:27:18 av Vorlonagent (404.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: Relative ship sizes in the B5 universe (and others)
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"Jeffrey Kaplan" <nomail@gordol.org> wrote in message 
news:bgg133dh95i9jocl498sgsqlv6ibvdqecg@gordol.org...
> It is alleged that Vorlonagent claimed:
>
>> >> I'm talking about the station.  If Earth made things that lasted
>> >> extra-long
>> >> you'd see it in the maintenance that B5 crews weren't doing.
>> > In that case, realize that the B5 station was built on a shoe-string
>> > budget.  Lots of quality compromises were made in its construction.
>> You see that in the brown and gray sectors.  They're a bit on the 
>> unfinished
>> side down there.  But you see maintenance going on everywhere.
>
> We never actually saw any maintenance going on on the Agamemnon because
> we never saw the Agamemnon that much.  Absence of evidence is not
> evidence of Absence.  And the only times we've seen actual maintenance
> going on on the station was when it was plot relevant.

We see it going on in the background.  IIRC it's one of the things extras 
are often doing.


> As for things breaking on B5:  "By Any Means Necessary".  Catastrophic
> failure happened because of substandard parts used to build the docking
> bay control computers, in an attempt to cut costs.

...which bolsters my point.  If Earth stuff was better or longer lasting 
than what we have now, even the substandard stuff would be less substandard. 
B5 conforms to 20th/early 21st century expectations of failure rate, 
therefore maintenance needs are not reduced by +200 years of technology.


>> > The Omegas are warships.  They are, or at least should be, designed
>> > with the intention of putting them in harm's way.  To that end, they
>> > should be built sturdy and as unbreakable as possible.  Moreso than a
>> > space station.
>>
>> The omegas had to be.  They were designed during the Earth-Minbari War.
>
> I thought they were designed after, based on the Novas, which were done
> during the war.  The Novas have that look of desperation about them,
> putting as much firepower as possible on a hull during a war of
> survival.

Nope.  The first Omegas entered service VERY shortly after the Earth-Minbari 
war.  Too shortly to have been designed and built after the war.  One 
assumes that the first Omegas were being rushed into production as the 
Minbari were closing on Earth.

The database for Sierra's ill-fated B5 game contains a small embellishment 
on history by the writer, that the EAS Omega was under construction and had 
its turret guns at the time of the Battle of the Line.  It was connected to 
the shipyard's power system and launched by the yard crews.  It never saw 
action but the time it took to reverse the quick-fixes the crews put in 
place to get the hull any kind of operational meant that another ship in the 
class was the first to actually enter service.

The Novas predate the Dilgar War.  Hyperions, too but as it happens they 
were inroduced shortly before the war.


>> But that's not my point.  MY point is that Omegas don't get shot up on a
>> regular basis.
>
> Neither does B5.  But getting shot at is part of the design criteria
> for the Omegas, not so much B5.

Omegas can be optimized for that fact of life, yes.


> The EA ships still get their motive force by rockets.  Maybe nuclear or
> ion powered instead of a chemical reaction like we have now in reality,
> but they still need a reaction mass to eject out the engine nozzles.
> And that means some kind of actual fuel that needs to be stored and
> replaced.

True.  The power source of B5's time is undoubtably fusion, unless fusion 
can't be miniaturized enough to fit on a starship.  We know it is B5's power 
source.  It probably in't a star fury's because we have several times heard 
people talking about getting the fighters "recharged."


> The weapons, too.  PPGs require some physical matter (helium iirc), to
> super-heat into plasma.  The guns on a Starfury are basically huge
> PPGs.  And Starfuries carry missiles too.  As do the Omegas and other
> capital ships.  And we've seen the station defense grid fire projectile
> weapons as well.  All of these have ammo of one type or another that
> needs to be stocked, stored and replaced.

15 star furies don't have the same ammunition needs as 80+ jet fighters. 
The omega's own missile racks are harder to judge since we know they have 
them but they have never used them on screen.

If the PPG gun is any judge, storage needs for weapons gasses is minimal. 
Characters on the show were more worried about the power source than the 
ammo supply.  Unless gas and power were co,bined into one unit, which still 
argues that storange needs are minimal.

When has B5's defense grid shot projectiles?  Episode, please.  The only 
defense grid I can think of to use physical weapons was Earth's.

Bottom line is there's no justification to assuming that the vast majority 
of Omega interior space is storage and justifying a ridiculously small crew 
on that basis.



>> >> Nova-class dreadnought.
>> > Is also smaller than an Omega.
>> No so it makes a difference.  The Nova is 1470 meters long to the Omega's
>> 1580.
>
> There's more to the size of a ship than just it's length.  The Nova has
> a smaller cross-section.

Not really.  What the Nova lacks is a rotating section.  Sight unseen, I 
think you'll find that the rotating section on the Omega makes it look 
thicker and that the Nova CGI model was made by stripping the rotating stuff 
off an Omega and replacing the turrets.

But this discussion is really only here cew over your assertion that gravity 
(specifically lack of it) is a constrain on crew size.

I think I've made the point that it isn't.


-- 
John Trauger,
Vorlonagent

"Methane martini.
Shaken, not stirred."

"Spirituality without science has no mind.

Science without spirituality has no heart."

-Methuselah Jones
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