Text 9006, 97 rader
Skriven 2006-09-24 12:54:00 av Robert E Starr JR (9503.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Can You BELIEVE This?
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* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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@MSGID: <0001HW.C13B6B4C00557967F0407530@news.verizon.net>
@REPLY:
<450960b2$0$6826$ecde5a14@news.coretel.net><0001HW.C1397A3E02A58E48F0407530@news.verizon.net><ef10i90150d@drn.newsguy.co

>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:17:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote
(in article 
<kurtullman-D082A2.13173323092006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>):

> In article <0001HW.C13AB2DB002A3F03F0407530@news.verizon.net>,
>  Amy Guskin <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote:
> 
>>>> On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:39:27 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote
>> (in article 
>> <kurtullman-CF4832.07392623092006@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx>):
>> 
>>> In article <0001HW.C13A06A00001E112F0407530@news.verizon.net>,
>>> Amy Guskin <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My guess is that those of you who are all "Pshaw, it's nothing!" over 
>>>> this 
>>>> phrase are western-European descended white males.
>>> And for some reason this ISN"T a bigoted response. <<
>> 
>> And where is the racially offensive term in that sentence?
>       The who sentence is racially offensive by suggesting something is 
> wrong with ALL Western-European descended white males. 
> 
> 
>> 
>> As I explained to Carl in another message, I had a reason for saying that.  
> 
>     Yep. YOu are bigoted against W-E d wm. They are by your definition 
> the only ones who cannot find offense with the original posters 
> statement.  <<

>> My reason being, anyone who has ever heard someone "innocently" use a term 
>> that disparages their ancestry, and who has felt that kind of burning shame 
>> and anger that that causes, would never in their wildest dreams think to 
>> use 
>> that term that Mac and Charlie think is just fine and inoffensive.  
>    But it is by your lights, okay to disparage W-E d wm? You don't like 
> someone so it is perfectly alright to disparage them, but those you 
> approve of get a pass. NOt only bigoted but bordering on hypocritical . <,

Well, I disagree.  I did _not_ disparage all W-E d wm.  I said that I thought 
there was a reason that group would be less apt to know the pain associated 
with having a racial epithet hurled at them, and that by that logic, I would 
have to deduce that Mac and Charlie were probably from that group.

Having said that, I _do_ see the point that what I said could potentially 
look like having put my foot in my mouth, but I sincerely think there's a 
tremendous gulf of a difference between my well-reasoned conjecture based on 
actual social history, and the thoughtless (meaning "without thought" rather 
than "mean-spirited") use of a racial slur.

>> Thus, 
>> they must be from the group that historically is the focal point of the 
>> least 
>> bias, the fewest ethnic slurs, and a general ability to move through the 
>> world (here in the US) without being discriminated against: 
>> western-European 
>> descended white males.  So, not at all bigoted, in fact: just a 
>> well-reasoned 
>> socio-cultural conclusion.
>> 
>        I think the OP was making pretty much the same comment.  <<

No, the OP was using a racial slur.

>>>>> (Actually I am of 
>>> the demographic and  thought the way you did on the original)> <<
>> 
>> You're from a major metropolitan coastal region, right?  I think maybe it's 
>> a 
>> middle-of-the-country thing; I'm taking note of who says they've heard the 
>> term, and who was completely flummoxed by it -- Josh and I had never heard 
>> it, and we've spent most of our lives in major metropolitan coastal regions 
>> (right, Josh?).
> 
>    Nope. Small town midwest during the formative years. Moved to Indy 
> and my kids graduated from a high school that had more people than my 
> hometown in the two upper grades. 
>       Don't even get me started on the utility of using Josh and you as 
> a social barometer (g). <<

Heh.  I wondered if anyone would notice that...  Thanks for not disappointing 
me!   :-)

Amy
                                                                               
                                               
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