Text 11680, 74 rader
Skriven 2007-02-06 08:48:53 av Charlie Edmondson (15119.babylon5)
  Kommentar till text 11608 av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (15047.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Cath0licism and Creati=nism
=======================================
Josh Hill wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:13:41 -0800, Charlie Edmondson
> <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Josh Hill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Until the others read his work and can't knock holes in it.
>>>
>>
>>Of course, this would be a lot easier if it wasn't going to take 20 
>>years for any noticible effects to indicate either way, so both sides 
>>are basically saying "Believe me!  I know what I am doing!" 8-)
>>
>>Both sides can pretty much drive trucks through the holes and 
>>assumptions, 'interesting' model results, and claims made from too 
>>little data.  Especially fun is that the actual data set has to be 
>>'adjusted' due to changes in local environment at the measurement 
>>points, and the amouts of that 'adjustment' has a great bearing on the 
>>final results.  So, until EITHER SIDE can make a solid, real prediction 
>>that is validated in results, we will just have competing propoganda wars...
> 
> 
> A couple of points, Charlie:
> 
> 1. The effects are already noticeable, massively noticeable. Record
> and climbing temperatures year after year, disappearing glaciers. It
> is now virtually certain that these are mostly due to the increase in
> greenhouse gases.
> 
> 2. THERE ARE NOT TWO SIDES, any more than there were really two sides
> in the smoking and health "debate." Science is now virtually
> unanimous. A survey of 1000 peer-reviewed papers chosen at random
> found that /every single one/ accepted that global warming is mostly
> due to a human contribution.
> 
> The people who are claiming that there are two sides are a motley
> assortment of hacks paid by the coal industry and laymen who have been
> fooled by them. There is absolutely no science on their side.
> 
> It makes me heartsick that the coal industry creeps have been so
> effective in their cynical attempt to mislead the public, and so
> successful in buying off unscrupulous politicians, including those in
> the White House, which has been caught systematically changing the
> conclusions of government scientists.
> 
Josh,
THERE ARE TWO SIDES!  There is the established Academic viewpoint, 
hammered out (at least non-violently) over the last decade as all 
dissenting voices have been stilled or compromised or other wise 
'handled.'  It is so bad that even with the much trumpeted $10G offer 
from the coal industry, the opponents would rather keep a low profile. 
What good is $10G when it means your career is ruined?

However, good party members such as yourself have accepted the party 
line, the media has bought into it big time "The world is ending, next 
week at 11" and everyone is yelling "We must do SOMETHING!" and lets get 
big government into it, they can handle it!

The reality is, if it is happening, it has been going on for 10,000 
years.  Most of the ideas to 'fight' it are basically ways for certain 
groups to grab more power.  Most the practical ways of working with it 
are simple, being done already because they are cheaper, or are being 
actively blocked by the PTB (such as electric cars...)

Also, all the 'measurable' effects are still well within normal ranges, 
they are just getting more press since we have a nice 'crisis' to play 
up to.  Like I said, REAL effects can only be measured on a 10-20 year 
time frame.

Charlie
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