Text 15440, 87 rader
Skriven 2007-06-15 19:30:12 av lizardgirl (1853.babylon5)
  Kommentar till text 15397 av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (1810.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: OT: a proposal for increasing teachers' salaries
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On Jun 11, 7:19 pm, "Carl" <cengm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "lizardgirl" <gab...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1181535139.668954.249140@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> I don't think it unreasonable that if the government is going to seize
> assets to support someone else that we should be able to ask
> that person to finish high school.... and possibly perform some sort
> of community service on a continuing basis while they are receiving
> assistance.

in principle i dont think its unreasonable to expect folks to take
responsibilty for themselves, giving back where and when it's
appropriate.  my one hesitation is that often this desire for a
'manditory payback' is more a move to beholden those recieving
assistance (nothing directed at you personal, mind) and does little to
demonstate a citizens societal obligations; which exsist both at the
giving ('seized') and the receiving end.

>
> > since we are too enlightened to cull the
> > bottom 8% or so of our population every now and again, if left
> > unassisted the 'under class' let's call it, will become a growing
> > liability.  public assistance programs mitigate, to a degree, against
> > unbridled all american.......progress.
>
> Hmmm...that paragraph makes me want to respond in about 8 different
> ways...but I'll refrain from putting you through all that.
>

thanks :^)  reading it again a few days out, it does seem a
bit...precocious.  lol


> If we had social programs that were successful in pulling people
> up,then as a society we could be more productive and devote
> more money to other important things.  Unfortunately what we're
> doing now isn't making society better, it *might* be just treading water.
>
> Imagine what we could do for <pick your favorite causes...
> the arts, health care, NASA,  cancer research, energy development
> et., >...if we could actually significantly reduce spending on social
> programs because the *need* diminished.
>
> Most federal programs seem to have topped out in how effective
> they are...and I don't know many people that are all that impressed
> with the results.  Once it's a federal program (no matter which side
> put it in place) it's there forever, and if you ever suggest any change,
> someone will scream "But it's not a perfect change so you can't do that!"
> (as if the current system were perfect).

i don't disagree that there is always a better way to spend money.
i've been reading up on 'block grants' from the feds to the states
back in the 90's trying to determine if it's even possible for
medicare programs to be better managed at the state level with
'minimal' interferance from the federal government.  i'd love to say,
oh, yes!  the states can do it better, just give them the money no
strings attached.   not sure i can.

>
> I wish we'd spend substantially more on fraud detection and prosecution.
> Most of our programs have huge amounts of fraud (estimates ranging up from
> 15-50% depending on the program).  This is not unique to the US. I
> understand
> that the rates are similar in other countries.  Australia is known to keep
> the best
> statistics on such things and their estimate reaches 50% for welfare fraud.


i have (had? we've lost touch) a friend who worked for the fed at one
time.  he said one of the best ideas they ever had was requiring
parents to provide social security numbers for dependant children on
their tax filings.  millions of children just disappeared off the face
of the earth from one tax year to the next.

is there welfare fraud?  sure.  but the system needs to be smarter,
less vulnerable to abuse.

> To the degree that we can all be convinced to work for the common good,
> that's great.  Freedom is lost whenever someone is compelled though.

yes and no.  there are shades of grey there.  taxes being one of
them. :^)

lg
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